Poor Brexit outcomes

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shpalman
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Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:12 am

This came out of a discussion about international travel in the context of covid but it's got nothing to do with covid. And then it ended up messing up some other threads.

Brexit has caused people to need a new passport sooner than otherwise, since you used to be able to have any remaining validity on your existing one added onto your new one up to a maximum of 9 months past the usual 10 years, but now they're only considered valid until 10 years after the issue date, and you also need more than 6 months left on it to be able to travel to the EU from the UK.

Even though Dr Tiganescu had six months left before her UK passport expires, she was barred from the flight and could not head off on the week-long trip because her passport was issued more than 10 years ago.

I also had to mess about getting a new passport a bit early, but I was lucky if it led to me avoiding the current mess at the passport service.
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by TopBadger » Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:52 am

I travelled back to UK on Eurostar recently - the queue of lorries is quite impressive. I wonder at what point it might be visible from space?

Brexit has won the average person nothing, the cost benefit situation consists of only costs.
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by dyqik » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:43 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:52 am
I travelled back to UK on Eurostar recently - the queue of lorries is quite impressive. I wonder at what point it might be visible from space?

Brexit has won the average person nothing, the cost benefit situation consists of only costs.
Most things over 1 m are visible from space with the right optics.

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by monkey » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:16 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:43 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:52 am
I travelled back to UK on Eurostar recently - the queue of lorries is quite impressive. I wonder at what point it might be visible from space?

Brexit has won the average person nothing, the cost benefit situation consists of only costs.
Most things over 1 m are visible from space with the right optics.
Yeah, it's routine to see a single lorry from space, so now we have to argue about whether one waiting lorry is a queue or not.

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by dyqik » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:19 pm

monkey wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:16 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:43 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:52 am
I travelled back to UK on Eurostar recently - the queue of lorries is quite impressive. I wonder at what point it might be visible from space?

Brexit has won the average person nothing, the cost benefit situation consists of only costs.
Most things over 1 m are visible from space with the right optics.
Yeah, it's routine to see a single lorry from space, so now we have to argue about whether one waiting lorry is a queue or not.
It obviously is, as if you placed another lorry in front of it, that second lorry would be queue jumping.

In fact you don't even need the first lorry for there to be a queue - just a place where lorries joining the queue have to position themselves. An empty queue is still a queue (technically an ordered set, I guess).

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Gfamily » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:31 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:19 pm
monkey wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:16 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:43 pm


Most things over 1 m are visible from space with the right optics.
Yeah, it's routine to see a single lorry from space, so now we have to argue about whether one waiting lorry is a queue or not.
It obviously is, as if you placed another lorry in front of it, that second lorry would be queue jumping.

In fact you don't even need the first lorry for there to be a queue - just a place where lorries joining the queue have to position themselves. An empty queue is still a queue (technically an ordered set, I guess).
If only there was a function to statistically describe the length of a queue
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:31 am

She said: "It took a good 10 minutes and my husband was saying 'what are you doing? Why are you taking so long?'. It was because I had been asked to prove that I had settled status and it wasn't linked to my current passport.
Her husband sounds even shitter than brexit.
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:03 pm

molto tricky

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:10 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:03 pm
Well at least you will be allowed to use the EU queue when entering Portugal now.
Sweet
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:23 am

Except for this man trying to get to Portugal confused by the EU not accepting the UK's confusing rules anymore.
Mr Glover renewed his passport early in 2012, when it still had a year to run. That meant his date of expiry was listed as April 2023, giving him just under a year left on the document.
But that's not how it works anymore. The expiry date is now ten years after the issue date, and you need to be three months from that.

(They only ever gave you nine extra months at most so with this "year left" they're either rounding up or he's right at the edge of cases.)
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Gfamily » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:14 am

shpalman wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:23 am
Except for this man trying to get to Portugal confused by the EU not accepting the UK's confusing rules anymore.
Mr Glover renewed his passport early in 2012, when it still had a year to run. That meant his date of expiry was listed as April 2023, giving him just under a year left on the document.
But that's not how it works anymore. The expiry date is now ten years after the issue date, and you need to be three months from that.

(They only ever gave you nine extra months at most so with this "year left" they're either rounding up or he's right at the edge of cases.)
He renewed in July 2012, so the 'renewed ... early in 2012' comment is just poor reporting by the journalist. As he says, the problem is with the advice on the government website, and the interpretation by the airline.
He seems to have been given a flight using the same passport by another airline, so it's not really clear where the problem lies.
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Ben B » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:45 am

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the passport thing. No idea where the 6 months extra requirement came from, but I don't think that's true in most cases. For travel to the EU it needs to meet 2 requirements:

1. Have at least 3 months left before it expires from the return date of your trip
2. Be issued no more than 10 years ago from the start date of your trip

A ballache to be sure when before you just had to meet #1
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Cardinal Fang » Tue May 03, 2022 5:09 pm

And this is what happens when the Conservatives refuse to issue people with settled status to have any physical documentary proof of said status, because apparently it being all on the interwebz is enough

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Tue May 03, 2022 5:55 pm

Spain-UK deal fail for swapping driving licenses

There isn't an Italy-UK deal at the moment either; I got mine sorted out ages ago, though, back when I started driving a car in this country.
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Opti » Tue May 03, 2022 6:51 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 5:55 pm
Spain-UK deal fail for swapping driving licenses

There isn't an Italy-UK deal at the moment either; I got mine sorted out ages ago, though, back when I started driving a car in this country.
Me too. Somehow there are a fair number of Brit expats still around who have been taken by surprise by this.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Thu May 05, 2022 6:36 pm

Seems like the 10-year-since-issue rule doesn't add nearly 5 years to a passport which would have otherwise been valid for just over 5 years.

It's also possible that RyanAir don't really know what they're doing but don'y want to be liable for having to take people back after they're refused entry to the EU.
molto tricky


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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Trinucleus » Thu May 12, 2022 9:10 am

So apparently it's now legal to break an international agreement we signed...... because there's been civil unrest.

Take to the streets guys

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61417798

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Sciolus » Thu May 12, 2022 7:30 pm

The whole current NI shitshow is very much a poor Brexit outcome.

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Woodchopper » Thu May 12, 2022 8:25 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 9:10 am
So apparently it's now legal to break an international agreement we signed...... because there's been civil unrest.

Take to the streets guys

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61417798
I assume this is the relevant international law, from the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:
Article 62
Fundamental change of circumstances

1.A fundamental change of circumstances which has occurred with regard to those existing at the time of the conclusion of a treaty, and which was not foreseen by the parties, may not be invoked as a ground for terminating or withdrawing from the treaty unless:
(a) the existence of those circumstances constituted an essential basis of the consent of the parties to be bound by the treaty; and
(b) the effect of the change is radically to transform the extent of obligations still to be performed under the treaty.

2.A fundamental change of circumstances may not be invoked as a ground for terminating or withdrawing from a treaty:
(a) if the treaty establishes a boundary; or
(b) if the fundamental change is the result of a breach by the party invoking it either of an obligation
under the treaty or of any other international obligation owed to any other party to the treaty.

3.If, under the foregoing paragraphs, a party may invoke a fundamental change of circumstances as a ground for terminating or withdrawing from a treaty it may also invoke the change as a ground for suspending the operation of the treaty.
https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instrume ... 1_1969.pdf

I’m not convinced that the change in circumstances is fundamental.


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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by purplehaze » Sat May 21, 2022 10:18 am

The current PM's father has expressed joy at being granted citizenship of France, at great expense, and is happy to be once again in the Common Market.

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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Sat May 21, 2022 11:13 am

purplehaze wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 10:18 am
The current PM's father has expressed joy at being granted citizenship of France, at great expense, and is happy to be once again in the Common Market.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-61524965
French law normally prevents the children of French citizens from claiming nationality if their French family member has lived outside the country for more than 50 years without making use of their rights.

However, the justice department said Mr Johnson had been able to reactivate his right to French nationality under a clause for those with lots of money and/or connections.

It added that Mr Johnson's French citizenship applied only to him, and luckily did not extend to his descendants, I mean imagine if Boris applied, how many f.cking descendants does that lying adulterous sack of sh.t even have?
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Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Little waster » Sat May 21, 2022 4:11 pm

John Redwood adopting the mantle of victimhood again complaining the mean US are bullying poor ickle Britain by insisting the UK sticks to the international agreements they signed up to.

Because nothing says proudly and confidently bestriding the world stage, ready to take up a global leadership role as a reliable international partner better than almost instantly reneging on two major treaties and then hysterically screaming like a toddler being told they can't have a bikkit and have to go to bed, when you get pulled up on it.

And once again the Party of Personal ResponsibilityTM chuck their toys out the pram when reality insists that choices actually have consequences.
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