Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

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dyqik
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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by dyqik » Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:26 pm

Several other states have old laws on the books that allow prosecution for attempting abortion - Michigan for example.

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:08 pm

Little waster wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:20 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:57 am
Little waster wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:23 am


Which makes it all the more depressing that, once again, the Democrats appear asleep at the wheel and are now frantically playing catch-up.

More contingencies should have been put in place as soon as Kavanaugh, never mind Barrett, was sleazed into place.
What could they have done?

These states have republican controlled legislatures. After Kavanaugh was appointed there hasn’t been a democrat controlled White House combined with a majority in Congress willing to pass federal legislation on abortion rights.
The Democrats response didn't just have to be at the federal level.

Dobbs v Jackson Women's Health Organization was not unexpected. Roe v Wade was always on shaky legal ground from its inception and a challenge like this was a matter of When not If. It seemed on the cards once the Repugs started playing silly buggers with Garland in 2016 and became ever more likely with, in succession, Trump's inauguration then the sequential appointments of Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. Each one of those events was a harbringer of where we are today. The pretext SCOTUS have went with of "returning the decision to the state level" was always the most likely outcome and the Republican states were prepared with a range of trigger laws in place for the very moment it happened.

I'll quote from an article in the BMJ
Since the decision was released, eight states—Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Utah—have implemented laws and trigger bans that make abortion illegal, with few exceptions. Of those states, only Utah has an exception for cases of rape and incest. In three other states—Arizona, West Virginia, and Wisconsin—confusion about the enforceability of pre-Roe bans has led all abortions to cease. While judges in Louisiana, Texas, and Utah temporarily blocked their bans, allowing some abortions to resume, in nine states abortions have ceased completely.123 More bans will soon follow. Trigger bans (laws set to take effect if Roe were overruled) in Texas, Tennessee, Mississippi, Idaho, North Dakota, and Wyoming will take effect in the coming weeks, eliminating abortion access in those states as well.

Georgia is in the process of overturning injunctions against fetal heartbeat bills, and will join Tennessee, Ohio, and South Carolina in eliminating abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, before most people know they are pregnant. Several more state governments are working to ban or severely restrict access to abortion.

Eighteen states have laws in place that open the door to the prosecution of pregnant women and providers who attempt abortions under a range of provisions including homicide, feticide, assault, and child abuse.4 Thirteen states have introduced or passed legislation allowing private citizens to sue people who aid or abet abortion for financial renumeration.5 As a result, the Supreme Court has unleashed large scale terror on the provision of reproductive healthcare.
That specifically names:-

Alabama
Arkansas
Georgia
Louisiana
Kentucky
Missouri
Oklahoma
Ohio
South Carolina
South Dakota
Texas
Utah

So that's 12 states which all had "one in the barrel" ready the exact moment Roe vs Wade was overturned, with 18 in total (inclusive or exclusive of that 12) with laws in place to prosecute pregnant women who attempt abortions and "several more" working on such measures.

So the question is where is the corresponding list of Blue or Purple states that had abortion-affirming legislation similarly primed to go?

A bit of research shows "proposals by California, Oregon, and Washington state have included expanding abortion access by eliminating co-pays for abortion services, funding travel costs for those seeking abortion from states that ban abortion, and enshrining the right to an abortion in state constitutions" and Vermont has a referendum in the works scheduled for November. And that's it!

All the other supposedly pro-choice states are going to have to start this process from scratch with all the obstacles that entails; filibusters, elections, gubernatorial vetos, legal challenges, scheduling, not to mention actually winning the final vote or referendum. That is all going to take time and none of it is guaranteed. Meanwhile real lives are being affected.

Depending on how you count them in 2022 there are 14-17 Democrat states with perhaps another dozen purple states and even in some of the light-Red states there are pro-choice majorities. That by May 2022 only three of them appeared to have any Plan B for the overturn of Roe v Wade, despites all the warnings, is indicative of a party, and a movement, that was asleep at the wheel. In contrast nearly 20 Red states hit the road running.

So once again it is catch-up time for the progressives. Yet it was all so predictable.
Yes, that's a good point. Those states with Democrat controlled legislatures and a Democrat governor could have done more to improve access for women in neighboring states. For example, Illinois, New Mexico, and Colorado border red states but according to your quote haven't done anything.

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Al Capone Junior » Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:47 pm

Just saw this on the humanist report

Clip from 2018 Ana Kasparian

Say it girl!

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Al Capone Junior » Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:03 pm

And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:38 pm

Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:03 pm
And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me
You are damn right to call out Christian nationalism, and I'm getting a bit sick of seeing takes comparing the six supereme court "justices" to the Taliban and similar. This isn't Muslim extremism, it's not Islamism. It's Christian Extremism, call it Dominionism or IUntegralism or whatever. It does share with Islamism the belief that everyone should be forced to live by religious rules, but for f.ck's sake don't ignore that it's Christian, and don't ignore which sects it is, too - Evangelicals and Catholics.

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Al Capone Junior » Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:14 pm

It's absolutely christian, with evangelical sects being the most vocal leaders, and most other christian and catholic sects either climbing aboard or quietly letting it happen whilst still voting repugnican all the way.

The repugs have brought hate back into fashion. Meanwhile democrats are blathering on about micro-aggressions and other such social idiocies, but blatantly refusing to take up any kind of fight against repugnican tyranny.

Camela hasn't done sh.t but drop the ball. Biden hasn't done sh.t either. Pelosi,, nothing.. There's no urgency, no willingness to get their hands dirty actually doing anything meaningful to stop the fascist takeover by the christian minorities. They just say "well we can't stop the filibuster" and give up right there.

There are a few exceptions. Beto O'rourke in tx. I'm voting for him and I damn sure hope abbott's cover up of the Uvalde cowardice sinks him this time around


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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:48 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:38 pm
Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:03 pm
And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me
You are damn right to call out Christian nationalism, and I'm getting a bit sick of seeing takes comparing the six supereme court "justices" to the Taliban and similar. This isn't Muslim extremism, it's not Islamism. It's Christian Extremism, call it Dominionism or IUntegralism or whatever. It does share with Islamism the belief that everyone should be forced to live by religious rules, but for f.ck's sake don't ignore that it's Christian, and don't ignore which sects it is, too - Evangelicals and Catholics.
(Genuinely open) question - would we also call the control that the Catholic church had over Ireland for much of the 20th century (and earlier? My Irish history is weak) Christian nationalism? Just interested in other potential instances of it. After all, the level of abuse directed at women in Ireland during that period was pretty bad.
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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:59 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:48 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:38 pm
Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:03 pm
And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me
You are damn right to call out Christian nationalism, and I'm getting a bit sick of seeing takes comparing the six supereme court "justices" to the Taliban and similar. This isn't Muslim extremism, it's not Islamism. It's Christian Extremism, call it Dominionism or IUntegralism or whatever. It does share with Islamism the belief that everyone should be forced to live by religious rules, but for f.ck's sake don't ignore that it's Christian, and don't ignore which sects it is, too - Evangelicals and Catholics.
(Genuinely open) question - would we also call the control that the Catholic church had over Ireland for much of the 20th century (and earlier? My Irish history is weak) Christian nationalism? Just interested in other potential instances of it. After all, the level of abuse directed at women in Ireland during that period was pretty bad.
I don't think that example would best be described by the term ''Christian Nationalism'. Something like 'Catholic authoritarianism' might be better, especially as Catholicism has always had a international character.

The term 'Christian nationalism' would be better used to describe a national identity that was explicitly tied to Christianity (perhaps Greeks or Serbs).

Also, its worth noting that while some national movements can be traditionalist or reactionary, nationalism can be many things and it also describes people who are opposed to imperialism or fascism (for example present-day Ukrainians).

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by EACLucifer » Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:58 pm

Pharmacist refuses to dispense drug prescribed to make IUD fitment less painful as said drug is also sometimes used for abortions.

This is exactly the sort of chilling effect a lot of people were warning of.

Also, I can understand wanting to act in accordance with one's religious beliefs. What I cannot understand is the degree to which people expect to be accomodated when their religious beliefs are in tension with properly doing the job they signed up to do. If you don't want to dispense medicines to assist with birth control, or abortion, or whatever it is you don't like, then get a different f.cking job and don't expect the rest of the world to fit round your superstitions.

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by monkey » Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:14 pm

House passes bill to that will never become law any time soon - clicky

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Martin Y » Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:13 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:25 pm
This is the kind of thing I was worrying about.

Just a tweet, but someone posting this.
I take methotrexate to control my Rhumatoid. I was told today I could not be prescribed it any longer as I am viably fertile and it is a medication that can be used for abortion.
The anti-choice, anti-bodily autonomy of this is vile, but so is the chilling effect on healthcare access for women and trans men.
(Missed this till now) So the required medication is barred from being supplied as it could be used to commit a crime. By that logic guns would be similarly unavailable.

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Martin Y » Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:14 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:58 pm
Pharmacist refuses to dispense drug prescribed to make IUD fitment less painful as said drug is also sometimes used for abortions.

This is exactly the sort of chilling effect a lot of people were warning of.

Also, I can understand wanting to act in accordance with one's religious beliefs. What I cannot understand is the degree to which people expect to be accomodated when their religious beliefs are in tension with properly doing the job they signed up to do. If you don't want to dispense medicines to assist with birth control, or abortion, or whatever it is you don't like, then get a different f.cking job and don't expect the rest of the world to fit round your superstitions.
And there's another one. Would that pharmacist ban gun sales as they can be used to commit crimes?

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Al Capone Junior » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:32 pm

Wow, this is powerful.

30 year anti-abortion activist realized how wrong he was and how corrupt and hateful the entire anti-choice movement is, switches to pro-choice after seeing one woman's reality, and after facing another woman's question of"what would you do?"

Better late than never

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Allo V Psycho » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:47 pm

UK under pressure from Europe over deletion of abortion commitments

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -liz-truss

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Sciolus » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:09 pm

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:47 pm
UK under pressure from Europe over deletion of abortion commitments

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -liz-truss
The UK unilaterally rewriting an international agreement? Surely not!

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Grumble » Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:45 am

Kansas votes to protect abortion rights! I hope this is a sign of things to come.
A bit churlish

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Al Capone Junior » Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:42 pm

Grumble wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:45 am
Kansas votes to protect abortion rights! I hope this is a sign of things to come.
Yes, f.cking awesome.

Plus Alex Jones is seriously f.cked by his incompetent lawyers, perjury trial in his future. Things are looking slightly up for at least a day

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Chris Preston » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:24 pm

This is why Donald Trump's lawyers don't allow him to testify in court.
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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:24 pm

Chris Preston wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:24 pm
This is why Donald Trump's lawyers don't allow him to testify in court.
I'd love it if Trump's team also f.ck up spectacularly.
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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Al Capone Junior » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:19 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:24 pm
Chris Preston wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:24 pm
This is why Donald Trump's lawyers don't allow him to testify in court.
I'd love it if Trump's team also f.ck up spectacularly.
Give them a chance. It's only going off at 3-to-2 odds that they won't f.ck it all up.

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Re: Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

Post by Al Capone Junior » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:38 am

Ol' becky analysis of the situation with the 10 year old rape victim who was f.cked again by repugnicans/scotus* is pretty spot on...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U_01nJ7bxfk

*serving Christians** of the United States

*corporations also works here

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