Roe v Wade likely to be overturned

[dyqik]

Several other states have old laws on the books that allow prosecution for attempting abortion - Michigan for example.

[Woodchopper]

Which makes it all the more depressing that, once again, the Democrats appear asleep at the wheel and are now frantically playing catch-up.

More contingencies should have been put in place as soon as Kavanaugh, never mind Barrett, was sleazed into place.

What could they have done?

These states have republican controlled legislatures. After Kavanaugh was appointed there hasn’t been a democrat controlled White House combined with a majority in Congress willing to pass federal legislation on abortion rights.

The Democrats response didn't just have to be at the federal level.

Dobbs v Jackson Women's Health Organization was not unexpected. Roe v Wade was always on shaky legal ground from its inception and a challenge like this was a matter of When not If. It seemed on the cards once the Repugs started playing silly buggers with Garland in 2016 and became ever more likely with, in succession, Trump's inauguration then the sequential appointments of Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. Each one of those events was a harbringer of where we are today. The pretext SCOTUS have went with of "returning the decision to the state level" was always the most likely outcome and the Republican states were prepared with a range of trigger laws in place for the very moment it happened.

I'll quote from an article in the BMJ

Since the decision was released, eight states—Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Utah—have implemented laws and trigger bans that make abortion illegal, with few exceptions. Of those states, only Utah has an exception for cases of rape and incest. In three other states—Arizona, West Virginia, and Wisconsin—confusion about the enforceability of pre-Roe bans has led all abortions to cease. While judges in Louisiana, Texas, and Utah temporarily blocked their bans, allowing some abortions to resume, in nine states abortions have ceased completely.123 More bans will soon follow. Trigger bans (laws set to take effect if Roe were overruled) in Texas, Tennessee, Mississippi, Idaho, North Dakota, and Wyoming will take effect in the coming weeks, eliminating abortion access in those states as well.

Georgia is in the process of overturning injunctions against fetal heartbeat bills, and will join Tennessee, Ohio, and South Carolina in eliminating abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, before most people know they are pregnant. Several more state governments are working to ban or severely restrict access to abortion.

Eighteen states have laws in place that open the door to the prosecution of pregnant women and providers who attempt abortions under a range of provisions including homicide, feticide, assault, and child abuse.4 Thirteen states have introduced or passed legislation allowing private citizens to sue people who aid or abet abortion for financial renumeration.5 As a result, the Supreme Court has unleashed large scale terror on the provision of reproductive healthcare.

That specifically names:-

Alabama
Arkansas
Georgia
Louisiana
Kentucky
Missouri
Oklahoma
Ohio
South Carolina
South Dakota
Texas
Utah

So that's 12 states which all had "one in the barrel" ready the exact moment Roe vs Wade was overturned, with 18 in total (inclusive or exclusive of that 12) with laws in place to prosecute pregnant women who attempt abortions and "several more" working on such measures.

So the question is where is the corresponding list of Blue or Purple states that had abortion-affirming legislation similarly primed to go?

A bit of research shows "proposals by California, Oregon, and Washington state have included expanding abortion access by eliminating co-pays for abortion services, funding travel costs for those seeking abortion from states that ban abortion, and enshrining the right to an abortion in state constitutions" and Vermont has a referendum in the works scheduled for November. And that's it!

All the other supposedly pro-choice states are going to have to start this process from scratch with all the obstacles that entails; filibusters, elections, gubernatorial vetos, legal challenges, scheduling, not to mention actually winning the final vote or referendum. That is all going to take time and none of it is guaranteed. Meanwhile real lives are being affected.

Depending on how you count them in 2022 there are 14-17 Democrat states with perhaps another dozen purple states and even in some of the light-Red states there are pro-choice majorities. That by May 2022 only three of them appeared to have any Plan B for the overturn of Roe v Wade, despites all the warnings, is indicative of a party, and a movement, that was asleep at the wheel. In contrast nearly 20 Red states hit the road running.

So once again it is catch-up time for the progressives. Yet it was all so predictable.

Yes, that's a good point. Those states with Democrat controlled legislatures and a Democrat governor could have done more to improve access for women in neighboring states. For example, Illinois, New Mexico, and Colorado border red states but according to your quote haven't done anything.

[Al Capone Junior]

Just saw this on the humanist report

Clip from 2018 Ana Kasparian

Say it girl!

[Al Capone Junior]

And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me

[EACLucifer]

And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me

You are damn right to call out Christian nationalism, and I'm getting a bit sick of seeing takes comparing the six supereme court "justices" to the Taliban and similar. This isn't Muslim extremism, it's not Islamism. It's Christian Extremism, call it Dominionism or IUntegralism or whatever. It does share with Islamism the belief that everyone should be forced to live by religious rules, but for f.ck's sake don't ignore that it's Christian, and don't ignore which sects it is, too - Evangelicals and Catholics.

[Al Capone Junior]

It's absolutely christian, with evangelical sects being the most vocal leaders, and most other christian and catholic sects either climbing aboard or quietly letting it happen whilst still voting repugnican all the way.

The repugs have brought hate back into fashion. Meanwhile democrats are blathering on about micro-aggressions and other such social idiocies, but blatantly refusing to take up any kind of fight against repugnican tyranny.

Camela hasn't done sh.t but drop the ball. Biden hasn't done sh.t either. Pelosi,, nothing.. There's no urgency, no willingness to get their hands dirty actually doing anything meaningful to stop the fascist takeover by the christian minorities. They just say "well we can't stop the filibuster" and give up right there.

There are a few exceptions. Beto O'rourke in tx. I'm voting for him and I damn sure hope abbott's cover up of the Uvalde cowardice sinks him this time around

[Al Capone Junior]

Lawrence O'Donnell eviscerates "justice" alito

[El Pollo Diablo]

And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me

You are damn right to call out Christian nationalism, and I'm getting a bit sick of seeing takes comparing the six supereme court "justices" to the Taliban and similar. This isn't Muslim extremism, it's not Islamism. It's Christian Extremism, call it Dominionism or IUntegralism or whatever. It does share with Islamism the belief that everyone should be forced to live by religious rules, but for f.ck's sake don't ignore that it's Christian, and don't ignore which sects it is, too - Evangelicals and Catholics.

(Genuinely open) question - would we also call the control that the Catholic church had over Ireland for much of the 20th century (and earlier? My Irish history is weak) Christian nationalism? Just interested in other potential instances of it. After all, the level of abuse directed at women in Ireland during that period was pretty bad.

[Woodchopper]

And the humanist report...

You can't get any more left or progressive than this guy. But despite my not being in the same demographic, I am mostly good* with his positions and analysis of the situation in the US.

Fascism

That's what we're up against. And even if China is worse (they are) or Russia (also worse) or [insert bad country here] we still need to call out the christian nationalists for bringing Fascism to the US because that's what they are doing and that's the appropriate word to use

*a few minor quibbles with details, but the vast extent of his desire to rid the US of the influence of religion and giving everyone basic human rights is good by me

You are damn right to call out Christian nationalism, and I'm getting a bit sick of seeing takes comparing the six supereme court "justices" to the Taliban and similar. This isn't Muslim extremism, it's not Islamism. It's Christian Extremism, call it Dominionism or IUntegralism or whatever. It does share with Islamism the belief that everyone should be forced to live by religious rules, but for f.ck's sake don't ignore that it's Christian, and don't ignore which sects it is, too - Evangelicals and Catholics.

(Genuinely open) question - would we also call the control that the Catholic church had over Ireland for much of the 20th century (and earlier? My Irish history is weak) Christian nationalism? Just interested in other potential instances of it. After all, the level of abuse directed at women in Ireland during that period was pretty bad.

I don't think that example would best be described by the term ''Christian Nationalism'. Something like 'Catholic authoritarianism' might be better, especially as Catholicism has always had a international character.

The term 'Christian nationalism' would be better used to describe a national identity that was explicitly tied to Christianity (perhaps Greeks or Serbs).

Also, its worth noting that while some national movements can be traditionalist or reactionary, nationalism can be many things and it also describes people who are opposed to imperialism or fascism (for example present-day Ukrainians).

[EACLucifer]

Pharmacist refuses to dispense drug prescribed to make IUD fitment less painful as said drug is also sometimes used for abortions.

This is exactly the sort of chilling effect a lot of people were warning of.

Also, I can understand wanting to act in accordance with one's religious beliefs. What I cannot understand is the degree to which people expect to be accomodated when their religious beliefs are in tension with properly doing the job they signed up to do. If you don't want to dispense medicines to assist with birth control, or abortion, or whatever it is you don't like, then get a different f.cking job and don't expect the rest of the world to fit round your superstitions.

[monkey]

House passes bill to that will never become law any time soon - clicky

[Martin Y]

This is the kind of thing I was worrying about.

Just a tweet, but someone posting this.

I take methotrexate to control my Rhumatoid. I was told today I could not be prescribed it any longer as I am viably fertile and it is a medication that can be used for abortion.

The anti-choice, anti-bodily autonomy of this is vile, but so is the chilling effect on healthcare access for women and trans men.

(Missed this till now) So the required medication is barred from being supplied as it could be used to commit a crime. By that logic guns would be similarly unavailable.

[Martin Y]

Pharmacist refuses to dispense drug prescribed to make IUD fitment less painful as said drug is also sometimes used for abortions.

This is exactly the sort of chilling effect a lot of people were warning of.

Also, I can understand wanting to act in accordance with one's religious beliefs. What I cannot understand is the degree to which people expect to be accomodated when their religious beliefs are in tension with properly doing the job they signed up to do. If you don't want to dispense medicines to assist with birth control, or abortion, or whatever it is you don't like, then get a different f.cking job and don't expect the rest of the world to fit round your superstitions.

And there's another one. Would that pharmacist ban gun sales as they can be used to commit crimes?

[Al Capone Junior]

Wow, this is powerful.

30 year anti-abortion activist realized how wrong he was and how corrupt and hateful the entire anti-choice movement is, switches to pro-choice after seeing one woman's reality, and after facing another woman's question of"what would you do?"

Better late than never

[Allo V Psycho]

UK under pressure from Europe over deletion of abortion commitments

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -liz-truss

[Sciolus]

UK under pressure from Europe over deletion of abortion commitments

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -liz-truss

The UK unilaterally rewriting an international agreement? Surely not!

[Grumble]

Kansas votes to protect abortion rights! I hope this is a sign of things to come.

[Al Capone Junior]

Kansas votes to protect abortion rights! I hope this is a sign of things to come.

Yes, f.cking awesome.

Plus Alex Jones is seriously f.cked by his incompetent lawyers, perjury trial in his future. Things are looking slightly up for at least a day

[Chris Preston]

This is why Donald Trump's lawyers don't allow him to testify in court.

[Bird on a Fire]

This is why Donald Trump's lawyers don't allow him to testify in court.

I'd love it if Trump's team also f.ck up spectacularly.

[Al Capone Junior]

This is why Donald Trump's lawyers don't allow him to testify in court.

I'd love it if Trump's team also f.ck up spectacularly.

Give them a chance. It's only going off at 3-to-2 odds that they won't f.ck it all up.

[Al Capone Junior]

Ol' becky analysis of the situation with the 10 year old rape victim who was f.cked again by repugnicans/scotus* is pretty spot on...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U_01nJ7bxfk

*serving Christians** of the United States

*corporations also works here

[Woodchopper]

Overall, abortion in the United States declined about 2 percent in the first two full months after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, accounting for women who traveled to states where it remained legal or ordered pills from overseas, according to a New York Times analysis of data from two studies released this week.

[…]

WeCount, a research project led by the Society of Family Planning that is collecting data from abortion providers nationwide. The group, which supports abortion rights, found that the number of legal abortions fell by around 7,000 a month in July and August in states that banned or restricted nearly all abortions, and by another 3,000 a month in states that passed more limited restrictions.

But in states where abortions remained broadly legal, the number of abortions increased by roughly 5,000, the study found, leaving a total drop of 6 percent compared with April.

A separate study, released Tuesday by the medical journal JAMA, found a nearly 120 percent increase in online abortion pill orders from overseas in July and August placed through Aid Access, which operates outside the U.S. health system and is designed to circumvent state abortion bans.

Putting both studies together, there were about 2,000 fewer abortions per month, compared with April, when abortion was legal in every state.

“If the goal is for some people to remain pregnant when they don’t want to be, the goal is being achieved,” said Abigail Aiken, a professor at the University of Texas at Austin and a co-author on the new JAMA paper. “If the goal is to end abortion, it’s not effective.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/upsh ... rseas.html

[Fishnut]

Brittany Watts from Ohio is being tried for 'abuse of corpse' after she had a miscarriage on her toilet and the fetus clogged up the pipes.

Brittany Watts, 33, of Warren, Ohio, went to the hospital twice concerning her unborn baby. She was informed that she was miscarrying and her baby was not viable. She was presumably sent home to miscarry, like many other miscarrying mothers. The fetus was only 22 weeks gestation when Watts miscarried into the toilet after her water broke, and when she flushed the remains clogged the pipes. A forensic pathologist testified that an autopsy found that the fetus was not injured, and that it had died before passing through the birth canal. Instead of being able to grieve, Watts was arrested. Source

Defense attorney Tracy Timko represented Watts during the preliminary hearing. In a statement, Timko said her client “suffered a tragic and dangerous miscarriage that jeopardized her own life.”

“Rather than focusing on healing physically and emotionally, she was arrested and charged with a felony and is fighting for her freedom and her reputation,” Timko said. “Miss Watts learned days before this that a miscarriage was inevitable and that the fetus could not survive outside the womb due to gestational age. This fetus died in utero.”

Timko argues that no law requires a mother suffering from a miscarriage of a non-viable fetus to bury or cremate the remains.

“Women miscarry into toilets everyday. If the state of Ohio expects these women to fish those remains from the toilet and deliver them to a hospital, funeral home or crematorium, the laws need changed,” Timko said, adding that “we aren’t there yet.”

She further stated, “Regardless of politics or religion, this matter hinges on the law. It is a travesty that Miss Watts was charged and we will continue to fight.” [Source]

As shocking and terrifying as the case against Brittany Watts is, she is far from alone. The prosecution of women for miscarriages is on the rise in the U.S. This is especially the case in states where “fetal personhood” laws are on the books. In Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma, and South Carolina, cases against women for miscarriage have seen a sharp rise and have sometimes involved sharing women’s medical records with law enforcement without their knowledge.
...
By far, the population most vulnerable to prosecution for miscarriage is women of color. Even before Oklahoma began restricting abortions, the state prosecuted a 20-year-old Native American woman, Brittney Poolaw, for miscarriage of a 17-week-old fetus. She was eventually sentenced to four years in prison. Her conviction hinged largely on a positive drug test, though it was not conclusively proven that the drugs caused the miscarriage. [Source]

You won't be surprised to learn that Brittany Watts is black.

[FlammableFlower]

That is horrific