Local Elections 2022
- snoozeofreason
- Snowbonk
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Local Elections 2022
We don't seem to have a thread on this, so I thought I'd start one.
I am going to begin with a harumph. This is the time at which the loyal foot soldiers of the Labour Party, such as myself, get called upon to distribute leaflets. There aren't any seats up for election in my area, so my services will not be called on, and I am rather glad, because the leaflet to be distributed starts like this.
The £2,620 claim is just annoying. It has been repeatedly pointed out that it is based on flawed assumptions. The party must be aware of this, but has decided neither to correct, nor to properly justify the claim. So it's hard to argue that they are making an honest mistake, and it is getting easier to argue that they are lying - in much the same way as the £350 million weekly payment claim made by Brexiteers was a lie.
What's doubly annoying is that it isn't necessary to produce such misleading stuff. If the leaflet said something along the lines of "The average family will be more than £1,000 pounds worse off under the Conservatives," it would probably be just as impactful, without being dishonest. I'd be happy to distribute that. (And if the leaflet made it clear that a substantial contribution to that sum came from a rise in National Insurance - and explained why this is a terrible way to raise money - then I'd happily set it to music and sing it through peoples' letter boxes.)
I am planning to be fairly discrete in my harumphing. It's not the sort of thing I would want to mention to any fellow party members - with the exception of Mrs. S and any comrades on this forum - because I know how arguments about statistics in politics tend to play out. Peoples' attitudes to a misleading statistic depend on how that statistic fits into their world view. Attempts to point out that the £2,620 is an exaggeration would probably just be met with accusations that this was an exercise in splitting of hairs and suppression of debate about an important topic (probably from people who, not long ago, were spitting tacks about the £350 million claim). This is an attitude that drives me up the wall. The leaflet doesn't after all suggest that the hit to local families will be about £2,600. It gives an exact figure without any qualification.
My view is that, if someone throws a number into the debate without any qualification on its accuracy, then they own it. If that number is expressed in large conspicuous font on a leaflet, or internet post, or the side of a bus, then they definitely own it. It's fine to qualify claims like this - for example to point out that some figures cannot be calculated exactly - but only if this is done upfront when the figure is introduced. Falling back on such qualifications only when the figure is queried is the mark of a hypocrite.
Anyway, that's my harumph over. I shall now, as Mrs Snooze likes to say, pack away my soap box. I am sure that the local elections will produce many other things to get annoyed about.
I am going to begin with a harumph. This is the time at which the loyal foot soldiers of the Labour Party, such as myself, get called upon to distribute leaflets. There aren't any seats up for election in my area, so my services will not be called on, and I am rather glad, because the leaflet to be distributed starts like this.
The £2,620 claim is just annoying. It has been repeatedly pointed out that it is based on flawed assumptions. The party must be aware of this, but has decided neither to correct, nor to properly justify the claim. So it's hard to argue that they are making an honest mistake, and it is getting easier to argue that they are lying - in much the same way as the £350 million weekly payment claim made by Brexiteers was a lie.
What's doubly annoying is that it isn't necessary to produce such misleading stuff. If the leaflet said something along the lines of "The average family will be more than £1,000 pounds worse off under the Conservatives," it would probably be just as impactful, without being dishonest. I'd be happy to distribute that. (And if the leaflet made it clear that a substantial contribution to that sum came from a rise in National Insurance - and explained why this is a terrible way to raise money - then I'd happily set it to music and sing it through peoples' letter boxes.)
I am planning to be fairly discrete in my harumphing. It's not the sort of thing I would want to mention to any fellow party members - with the exception of Mrs. S and any comrades on this forum - because I know how arguments about statistics in politics tend to play out. Peoples' attitudes to a misleading statistic depend on how that statistic fits into their world view. Attempts to point out that the £2,620 is an exaggeration would probably just be met with accusations that this was an exercise in splitting of hairs and suppression of debate about an important topic (probably from people who, not long ago, were spitting tacks about the £350 million claim). This is an attitude that drives me up the wall. The leaflet doesn't after all suggest that the hit to local families will be about £2,600. It gives an exact figure without any qualification.
My view is that, if someone throws a number into the debate without any qualification on its accuracy, then they own it. If that number is expressed in large conspicuous font on a leaflet, or internet post, or the side of a bus, then they definitely own it. It's fine to qualify claims like this - for example to point out that some figures cannot be calculated exactly - but only if this is done upfront when the figure is introduced. Falling back on such qualifications only when the figure is queried is the mark of a hypocrite.
Anyway, that's my harumph over. I shall now, as Mrs Snooze likes to say, pack away my soap box. I am sure that the local elections will produce many other things to get annoyed about.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?
Re: Local Elections 2022
If I was the sort of person that didn't bother reading the leaflets, I'd probably just throw that in the bin, but then complain that "at least the Conservatives sent a leaflet, didn't get anything from Labour, it's like they don't care"
Why doesn't it say "Vote Labour" in big letters? Why is it Tory blue?
(Also, prize to the first misleading graph from the Lib Dems)
Why doesn't it say "Vote Labour" in big letters? Why is it Tory blue?
(Also, prize to the first misleading graph from the Lib Dems)
- snoozeofreason
- Snowbonk
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Re: Local Elections 2022
To be fair, that was just one side of the leaflet. The other side looks like thismonkey wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 3:45 pmIf I was the sort of person that didn't bother reading the leaflets, I'd probably just throw that in the bin, but then complain that "at least the Conservatives sent a leaflet, didn't get anything from Labour, it's like they don't care"
Why doesn't it say "Vote Labour" in big letters? Why is it Tory blue?
(Also, prize to the first misleading graph from the Lib Dems)
That side is predominantly red and does say "Vote Labour" in medium sized letters. So maybe the impression left by the leaflet will depend on which side up it lands on the voter's doormat.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?
- Little waster
- After Pie
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Re: Local Elections 2022
TBF at a quick glance it looks it's suggesting Starmer is "bumbling from crisis to crisis". 
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
- Bird on a Fire
- Princess POW
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Re: Local Elections 2022
Yeah that leaflet f.cking sucks - negative campaigning, ineptly executed.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
Re: Local Elections 2022
Seems to be a lot of it about. Friend in Bury received something about the high cost of Tory rule - in an envelope labelled "Final Demand". Local party couldn't grasp why she was angry.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:26 amYeah that leaflet f.cking sucks - negative campaigning, ineptly executed.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
Re: Local Elections 2022
Does anyone read them? Even if they do, does a leaflet change voting intentions?
I think leaflets just piss people off.
I think leaflets just piss people off.
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
Re: Local Elections 2022
OTOH if parties didn't leaflet folks would complain their vote was being taken for granted.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
- Bird on a Fire
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Re: Local Elections 2022
I generally do look at them in the locals to see what various parties are suggesting locally, yeah. Wouldn't be too impressed with a leaflet about Westminster stuff when the election's about bins and potholes. Johnson and Starmer are irrelevant, and local elections aren't gonna do much for your cost of living.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
- science_fox
- Snowbonk
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Re: Local Elections 2022
OtherHalf won't vote for a party that hasn't at least tried contact in some way. Very much feels being taken for granted in this Labour stronghold. So far we've had nothing from any party.
I'm not afraid of catching Covid, I'm afraid of catching idiot.
- discovolante
- Stummy Beige
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Re: Local Elections 2022
Holy f.ck. Shaun Bailey pulled that trick for the London mayor elections and rightly got ripped to shreds. Maybe it's a bit London centric to assume they'd know about it but still...JQH wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:33 amSeems to be a lot of it about. Friend in Bury received something about the high cost of Tory rule - in an envelope labelled "Final Demand". Local party couldn't grasp why she was angry.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:26 amYeah that leaflet f.cking sucks - negative campaigning, ineptly executed.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.
- snoozeofreason
- Snowbonk
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Re: Local Elections 2022
If you are living in the South East you can, I am told by the party, look forward to vans with this on the side.
On close inspection it's a banner complaining about Tory lies, next to something that could count as a lie. On more sketchy inspection, it's all in Tory blue and looks like an invitation to vote Conservative!
On close inspection it's a banner complaining about Tory lies, next to something that could count as a lie. On more sketchy inspection, it's all in Tory blue and looks like an invitation to vote Conservative!
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?
- Stranger Mouse
- After Pie
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Re: Local Elections 2022
Interesting thread from Lewis Goodall about some of the local election leaflets
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/statu ... SbpHzdInPw
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/statu ... SbpHzdInPw
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works
Re: Local Elections 2022
Best leaflet I've seen so far https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/15217960 ... name=smallStranger Mouse wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 4:29 pmInteresting thread from Lewis Goodall about some of the local election leaflets
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/statu ... SbpHzdInPw
- Little waster
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Re: Local Elections 2022
Although if we all went down to the polling stations tomorrow and voted on the basis that the "Local ConservativeTM" ran Council were really good at emptying the bins* then this could only be interpreted in No. 10 as vindication to continue to ignore Partygate, the cost of living, Ukrainian refugees, the melting ice-caps etc. and get back to the real business of seeing how much copper wiring is left to pull out of the walls in Downing Street and carry off to the local scrapyard.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:46 amlocal elections aren't gonna do much for your cost of living.
*on the probably erroneous assumption that Conservative councillors are any less of a bunch of halfwitted, evil, corrupt shitehawks than their Westminster counterparts
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.
Re: Local Elections 2022
We know that the Westminster Councillors (Dame Shirley Porter) were even worse. Putting people in buildings with asbestos dust.Little waster wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:45 pmAlthough if we all went down to the polling stations tomorrow and voted on the basis that the "Local ConservativeTM" ran Council were really good at emptying the bins* then this could only be interpreted in No. 10 as vindication to continue to ignore Partygate, the cost of living, Ukrainian refugees, the melting ice-caps etc. and get back to the real business of seeing how much copper wiring is left to pull out of the walls in Downing Street and carry off to the local scrapyard.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:46 amlocal elections aren't gonna do much for your cost of living.
*on the probably erroneous assumption that Conservative councillors are any less of a bunch of halfwitted, evil, corrupt shitehawks than their Westminster counterparts
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Local Elections 2022
Because there isn't an election where you are?
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
- Rich Scopie
- Snowbonk
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Re: Local Elections 2022
That's my excuse.
It first was a rumour dismissed as a lie, but then came the evidence none could deny:
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!
Re: Local Elections 2022
Yes. But it doesn't stop twitter morons from nagging me to vote. Apparently its important and earnest words inside a leftie echo chamber will make a difference.
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Local Elections 2022
I thought we all worked out it doesn't back in 2015?
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
Re: Local Elections 2022
Apparently it's incredibly important for me to know Local Conservatives are just Conservatives. Thanks guys, that's stopped me making an embarrassing mistake.
- Bird on a Fire
- Princess POW
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Re: Local Elections 2022
I was wondering yesterday why my postal vote hadn't turned up. Checked. No election in my UK registered constituency either.
Might just send the polling office a postcard that says TORIES OUT or something.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Local Elections 2022
A few years ago, I got canvassed by a Tory member on the doorstep, explained I was voting Labour, and was accused of wanting the country to go bankrupt.
It turned out we didn't have an election that year.
It turned out we didn't have an election that year.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
Re: Local Elections 2022
An MP, a Councillor, or just a dick?El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 amA few years ago, I got canvassed by a Tory member on the doorstep,
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!