First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by monkey » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:15 pm

Looks like the flight has been cancelled, for now.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by lpm » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:25 pm

Which is what this scum govt wanted.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by monkey » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:17 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:25 pm
Which is what this scum govt wanted.
Think the government would have been happy whatever. If the deportations happened, they look like they're doing something about immigration*, but now they've lost, they get to complain about the Human Rights Act and the undemocratic courts to an appreciative press**. Either way, the right wing is appeased and distracted from Johnson's failings. Similar thing with NI is going on too. Either they get to say "See, we're sorting it out. Deliver Brexit", or they get to complain about the EU getting in the way.


*Not my idea of what should be done, just to be clear.

**Daily Mail has "Meddling human rights judge" on their top headline at the moment, it's already happening.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by lpm » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:10 pm

Euro judges to blame. Perfect. It's a great scheme, whip up hate vs EU, whip up hate vs brown immigrants stealing jobs and living off benefits.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by temptar » Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:02 am

ECHR is not an EU court but if your topclass politicians talk about pulling out of it the EU will be fully aware of how seriously your topclass politicians take the Good Friday Agreement.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:45 am

temptar wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:02 am
ECHR is not an EU court but if your topclass politicians talk about pulling out of it the EU will be fully aware of how seriously your topclass politicians take the Good Friday Agreement.
The ECHR was originally proposed by Winston Churchill and drafted mainly by British lawyers.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by jimbob » Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:44 am

temptar wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:02 am
ECHR is not an EU court but if your topclass politicians talk about pulling out of it the EU will be fully aware of how seriously your topclass politicians take the Good Friday Agreement.
Indeed, but we know that Johnson lies and the anti Europe press has been deliberately conflating if for as long as I can remember.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by discovolante » Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:06 am

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:57 pm
discovolante wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:21 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:16 pm

Fair point, but from a Bayesian analysis...
It would be quite a poor analysis if you based it on your own experience only rather than the publicly available experience and knowledge of other people who have claimed asylum and experts who support them.

I'm not sure what you think I'm saying.

Tessa asked whether refugees would be aware of the likelihood of being sent to Rwanda, with the very valid point that the traffickers are not likely to let them know what the UK's government had in mind for them, and suggested that in fleeing from their original homes they wouldn't have any way of finding that out before ending up on an inflatable.

My point is that it often takes months of travel independently or in groups to get to the channel, and that there's a reasonable amount of information sharing about routes, countries and the rules and systems for claiming asylum in each. As you say, "publicly available experience and knowledge"; it'll get shared.

I think a significant number will know, that's all. I don't know how many it'll deter from making the crossing though.
Sorry for being a bit terse. I was just slightly put out that a discussion of policy seemed to be based on one anecdote and the Bayesian analysis comment seemed to be making light of the issue a bit.

Lots of knowledge is publicly available but it doesn't mean people have accessed it. Otherwise there wouldn't be people who think all 'illegal immigrants' are murderous criminals who jump the queue for social housing and benefits. Even if a 'significant number' know it doesn't mean everyone will. Anyhoo here's a (unreferenced) thread about it a bit as well. I'm sure he did another one where he talks about the difference between smuggling and trafficking too but I can't find it now: https://twitter.com/stand_for_all/statu ... dT-2P7MgZA
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Gfamily » Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:24 am

discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:06 am
.
Lots of knowledge is publicly available but it doesn't mean people have accessed it.
I have some experience (not a lot, but some) of helping refugees, and there is a lot of sharing of information.
My Bayesian comment was genuine - in that Tessa had suggested that people being trafficked across the channel would not be aware of the hostile environment and the threat of being sent to Rwanda.

My example that a randomly chosen contact* from the migrant population having a good knowledge of the different systems suggests that this knowledge is at least somewhat present in that population.

* we had no contact with any refugees before we were asked if we could house him.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by discovolante » Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:07 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:24 am
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:06 am
.
Lots of knowledge is publicly available but it doesn't mean people have accessed it.
I have some experience (not a lot, but some) of helping refugees, and there is a lot of sharing of information.
My Bayesian comment was genuine - in that Tessa had suggested that people being trafficked across the channel would not be aware of the hostile environment and the threat of being sent to Rwanda.

My example that a randomly chosen contact* from the migrant population having a good knowledge of the different systems suggests that this knowledge is at least somewhat present in that population.

* we had no contact with any refugees before we were asked if we could house him.
So do I, and I also know people who have been disappointed and frustrated at how they have been treated because they expected things to be different.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Grumble » Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:14 pm

Are we still bringing in refugees from Rwanda even though we aren’t sending ours to them?
A bit churlish

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:23 pm

discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:07 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:24 am
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:06 am
.
Lots of knowledge is publicly available but it doesn't mean people have accessed it.
I have some experience (not a lot, but some) of helping refugees, and there is a lot of sharing of information.
My Bayesian comment was genuine - in that Tessa had suggested that people being trafficked across the channel would not be aware of the hostile environment and the threat of being sent to Rwanda.

My example that a randomly chosen contact* from the migrant population having a good knowledge of the different systems suggests that this knowledge is at least somewhat present in that population.

* we had no contact with any refugees before we were asked if we could house him.
So do I, and I also know people who have been disappointed and frustrated at how they have been treated because they expected things to be different.
I wonder how long it will take for word to get around the world about where this country is headed.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:20 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:23 pm
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:07 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:24 am


I have some experience (not a lot, but some) of helping refugees, and there is a lot of sharing of information.
My Bayesian comment was genuine - in that Tessa had suggested that people being trafficked across the channel would not be aware of the hostile environment and the threat of being sent to Rwanda.

My example that a randomly chosen contact* from the migrant population having a good knowledge of the different systems suggests that this knowledge is at least somewhat present in that population.

* we had no contact with any refugees before we were asked if we could house him.
So do I, and I also know people who have been disappointed and frustrated at how they have been treated because they expected things to be different.
I wonder how long it will take for word to get around the world about where this country is headed.
For a lot of the rest of the world this is the norm I’m afraid. There’s around 190 countries in the world and most of them act like this in one way or another. The fact they we’ve decided to join them is horrible.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by monkey » Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:27 pm

temptar wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:02 am
ECHR is not an EU court but if your topclass politicians talk about pulling out of it the EU will be fully aware of how seriously your topclass politicians take the Good Friday Agreement.
Today I learnt there's a commitment to it in the Brexit agreement too, which is a more direct link to the EU.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:57 pm


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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:13 pm

Really good takedown by Yvette Cooper

https://twitter.com/bestforbritain/stat ... 6QoarK0LcA
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by monkey » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:38 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:13 pm
Really good takedown by Yvette Cooper

https://twitter.com/bestforbritain/stat ... 6QoarK0LcA
Unfortunately somewhat undermined by Labour Spokesman shortly after - clicky

Hooray for triangulation!

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Little waster » Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:37 pm

For those who didn’t see it Quentin Letts’ meltdown on GMB was impressive.

Only current YouTube link https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynsv24-g2pY

He seemed genuinely affronted that somebody might actually fact-check his b.llsh.t. It just goes to show the firm reasoning behind his support for the policy when the only way he could justify it was by simply making sh.t up.


I suppose the sad thing is it is now newsworthy when a journalist does what really should be considered the bare minimum, in challenging an interviewee on blatantly false claims rather than taking a cowardly “both sides” approach in the name of faux balance. :|
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Trinucleus » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:03 am

Little waster wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:37 pm
For those who didn’t see it Quentin Letts’ meltdown on GMB was impressive.

Only current YouTube link https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynsv24-g2pY

He seemed genuinely affronted that somebody might actually fact-check his b.llsh.t. It just goes to show the firm reasoning behind his support for the policy when the only way he could justify it was by simply making sh.t up.


I suppose the sad thing is it is now newsworthy when a journalist does what really should be considered the bare minimum, in challenging an interviewee on blatantly false claims rather than taking a cowardly “both sides” approach in the name of faux balance. :|
There's an absolutely key point there - people have always said it's impossible for Afghans or others to apply for asylum when in their own country. But of course the Government could let them apply online, like the Ukrainians, to avoid the people traffickers. There you are, Priti, sorted

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Little waster » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:07 pm

Johnson (or "Borish" as the typically flakey Gradgrind live feed aptly named him) is to describe "obvious merits" of the Rwanda policy to Prince Charles.

I think there is just enough space at the bottom of my post for you to fill in your own punchline about quantum time theory, "took longer than the amount of time Johnson has ever remained faithful to a woman" and the like. Go wild!
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by tom p » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:27 pm

Little waster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:07 pm
Johnson (or "Borish" as the typically flakey Gradgrind live feed aptly named him) is to describe "
Can't believe they missed the 2nd o

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Gfamily » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:30 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:27 pm
Little waster wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:07 pm
Johnson (or "Borish" as the typically flakey Gradgrind live feed aptly named him) is to describe "
Can't believe they missed the 2nd o
It was there, but then the septum failed. Can't think why.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Fishnut » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:49 pm

Once again the government leaves me at a loss for words. From the Guardian,
A hostel that has been leased by the Rwandan government to house asylum seekers from the UK is making preparations to accept children.

The Hope hostel in Kigali is building outdoor facilities that will include football pitches, basketball courts and outdoor toys for any children who are flown to the east African country...

[The manager, Elisee Kalyango] confirmed they were taking steps to prepare for the arrival of children under the policy, and said: “We are ready to handle people from any age.”
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:20 am

Not Rwanda, bus the government have worked out a novel way to celebrate Pride:
Adeniyi Raji, 48, is a gay man facing removal to Nigeria for a second time. He was interviewed by the Guardian in 2017 when he first faced deportation. “I’m in the UK because I need protection. If I’m returned to Nigeria, they will kill me,” he said.

He shared screenshots of death threats he had received from people in Nigeria. One said: “So after all that we did to you before, you are still a practising homosexual. Wait until we see you down here, that will be the end of you.”

Government guidance published in February 2022 states that LGBTI people are persecuted in Nigeria, that gay men found to be involved in same sex acts are liable to be jailed for 14 years, while in the northern states, where Sharia law prevails, the punishment is death.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -and-ghana

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