First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

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discovolante
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First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by discovolante » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:08 pm

I've been offline for a couple of days so apologies that this is a bit out of date but I can't see anything about it anyway.

Some of the first asylum seekers who are going to be removed to Rwanda by the Home Office are Syrian, apparently: https://twitter.com/ZoeJardiniere/statu ... purX3RZS7A (not that anyone claiming asylum should be removed to a completely different country against their will, but you know...)

Some went on hunger strike: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61676961

Someone from Iran writes about their experience (including not getting proper medical care in the detention centre, not that that's new): https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -offshored

Pretty inhumane eh.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Fishnut » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:15 pm

One of those being sent to Rwanda is a 27 year old Syrian refugee who's being separated from his 16 year old brother.
Syrian Saleh, not his real name, is distraught at being forced to leave behind his 16-year-old brother.

“I would rather kill myself than call my mother telling her I’m in Rwanda 1,000 miles from Abdel,” he said.

Appealing directly to the Government, Saleh, 27, asked: “Why are you doing this to me when you’re not with other asylum seekers? Why Rwanda?” He says he fled Syria’s civil war after being tortured by the regime.
The absolute inhumanity of this is breathtaking.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by raven » Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:33 pm

Single men. Pritti said it would only be single men. How does someone escorting a sibling who is a minor qualify?

Oh that's right. Hostile bl..dy environment.

I don't want to believe the UK is capable of this level of cruelty, but given siser-in-law's experiences with the Home Office (which have only cost her money, time and stress, not home or liveilhood) I am totally unsurprised.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by discovolante » Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:23 pm

raven wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:33 pm
Single men. Pritti said it would only be single men. How does someone escorting a sibling who is a minor qualify?

Oh that's right. Hostile bl..dy environment.

I don't want to believe the UK is capable of this level of cruelty, but given siser-in-law's experiences with the Home Office (which have only cost her money, time and stress, not home or liveilhood) I am totally unsurprised.
I don't know how it would be possible to rely on an 'assurance' like that, not even slightly surprising they aren't doing that is it?

This page has some guidance about the Rwanda issue as well as a few other pretty awful changes relating to the standard of proof, penalising late submission of of evidence, among other things. I'm pretty sure they will have already been discussed in the thread about the Bill but doesn't hurt to recap...
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/im ... 20the%20UK.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:40 pm

raven wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:33 pm
Single men. Pritti said it would only be single men. How does someone escorting a sibling who is a minor qualify?

Oh that's right. Hostile bl..dy environment.

I don't want to believe the UK is capable of this level of cruelty, but given siser-in-law's experiences with the Home Office (which have only cost her money, time and stress, not home or liveilhood) I am totally unsurprised.
And of course single men can be every bit as vulnerable as anyone else can be.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by raven » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:34 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:40 pm
And of course single men can be every bit as vulnerable as anyone else can be.
Yes. Especially single gay men who've come here to escape persecution. We (the UK state) treat them with enough suspicion as it is.

Thanks for the link, disco.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Tessa K » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:34 am

How will dumping refugees in Rwanda stop people smuggling? By the time the refugees get here the smugglers have already been paid.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:43 am

Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:34 am
How will dumping refugees in Rwanda stop people smuggling? By the time the refugees get here the smugglers have already been paid.
I think the Daily Mail explained it best when they found ten people seeking asylum who said they wouldn't have bothered if they knew they'd end up in Rwanda.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Little waster » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:50 am

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:43 am
Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:34 am
How will dumping refugees in Rwanda stop people smuggling? By the time the refugees get here the smugglers have already been paid.
I think the Daily Mail explained it best when they found ten people seeking asylum who said they wouldn't have bothered if they knew they'd end up in Rwanda.
Ahh Schrödinger's Rwanda which is simultaneously a wonderful safe place refugees will be happy to go to and a dreadful 3rd World hell-hole of which the very thought will cause Ukranians/Syrians etc. to stop fleeing, turn around and head back to the rubble that used to be their house.

And given Article 16 is all the rage at the moment here's Section 16 of the agreement:-
Section 16: the participants will make arrangements for the United Kingdom to settle a portion of Rwanda's most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom
So we are doing swapsies now. We send 300 refugees who want asylum in an English-speaking country to a French-speaking one meanwhile Rwanda sends us 300 refugees who want asylum in a French-speaking country to an English-speaking one. That should help assimilation. All for the low low price of just £120m per year or as it is now known a third of a "Brexit bus". I imagine the racists will be getting the bunting out for that one.

Anyone else getting the impression that Tories are all horrible thick c.nts?
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Tessa K » Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:59 am

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:43 am
Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:34 am
How will dumping refugees in Rwanda stop people smuggling? By the time the refugees get here the smugglers have already been paid.
I think the Daily Mail explained it best when they found ten people seeking asylum who said they wouldn't have bothered if they knew they'd end up in Rwanda.

But will most of them know before they get here? The smugglers won't tell them and they're probably too busy trying to survive/escape their own country to check the UK news.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:04 am

Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:59 am
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:43 am
Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:34 am
How will dumping refugees in Rwanda stop people smuggling? By the time the refugees get here the smugglers have already been paid.
I think the Daily Mail explained it best when they found ten people seeking asylum who said they wouldn't have bothered if they knew they'd end up in Rwanda.

But will most of them know before they get here? The smugglers won't tell them and they're probably too busy trying to survive/escape their own country to check the UK news.
The asylum seekers who we hosted in France were fairly well informed and one of them at least had moved across a number of European countries (Spain, Finland, and France) before making his claim.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by discovolante » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:00 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:04 am
Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:59 am
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:43 am


I think the Daily Mail explained it best when they found ten people seeking asylum who said they wouldn't have bothered if they knew they'd end up in Rwanda.

But will most of them know before they get here? The smugglers won't tell them and they're probably too busy trying to survive/escape their own country to check the UK news.
The asylum seekers who we hosted in France were fairly well informed and one of them at least had moved across a number of European countries (Spain, Finland, and France) before making his claim.
That is n=1 though...
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:16 pm

discovolante wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:00 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:04 am
Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:59 am



But will most of them know before they get here? The smugglers won't tell them and they're probably too busy trying to survive/escape their own country to check the UK news.
The asylum seekers who we hosted in France were fairly well informed and one of them at least had moved across a number of European countries (Spain, Finland, and France) before making his claim.
That is n=1 though...
Fair point, but from a Bayesian analysis...
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by tom p » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:56 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:16 pm
discovolante wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:00 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:04 am


The asylum seekers who we hosted in France were fairly well informed and one of them at least had moved across a number of European countries (Spain, Finland, and France) before making his claim.
That is n=1 though...
Fair point, but from a Bayesian analysis...
Do you think the Heil published a random selection?

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by discovolante » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:21 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:16 pm
discovolante wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:00 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:04 am


The asylum seekers who we hosted in France were fairly well informed and one of them at least had moved across a number of European countries (Spain, Finland, and France) before making his claim.
That is n=1 though...
Fair point, but from a Bayesian analysis...
It would be quite a poor analysis if you based it on your own experience only rather than the publicly available experience and knowledge of other people who have claimed asylum and experts who support them.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by lpm » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:26 pm

What airport is this supposed to be?

Rumours that they are flying from a military airbase and filing fake flight plans.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Little waster » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:32 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:26 pm
What airport is this supposed to be?

Rumours that they are flying from a military airbase and filing fake flight plans.
I heard Chris Grayling was put in charge of getting them to the airport.

Rumours are he was last seen packing them into a fleet of black cabs telling the drivers that the destination was "somewhere near the end of the M25".

In a rare break in form, a move which has proven less expensive than the original policy. :shock:
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by lpm » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:38 pm

Search Boscombe Down on twitter and it has pictures of a plane. A massive plane. For a handful of "passengers".

People who understand Flight Radar say it's registration number EC-LZO and was flown in with an Upavon (UPV) destination on the flight plan, but landed at Boscombe (BDN).

They know they are being evil.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:57 pm

discovolante wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:21 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:16 pm
discovolante wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:00 pm

That is n=1 though...
Fair point, but from a Bayesian analysis...
It would be quite a poor analysis if you based it on your own experience only rather than the publicly available experience and knowledge of other people who have claimed asylum and experts who support them.

I'm not sure what you think I'm saying.

Tessa asked whether refugees would be aware of the likelihood of being sent to Rwanda, with the very valid point that the traffickers are not likely to let them know what the UK's government had in mind for them, and suggested that in fleeing from their original homes they wouldn't have any way of finding that out before ending up on an inflatable.

My point is that it often takes months of travel independently or in groups to get to the channel, and that there's a reasonable amount of information sharing about routes, countries and the rules and systems for claiming asylum in each. As you say, "publicly available experience and knowledge"; it'll get shared.

I think a significant number will know, that's all. I don't know how many it'll deter from making the crossing though.
Last edited by Gfamily on Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:59 pm

Quoted rather than edited
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by lpm » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:25 pm

Why does this forum always take Johnson government's "policies" at face value? Dumb.

This has zero to do with asylum. The house thing had nothing to with housing.
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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:48 pm

One of the people at risk of being deported is an Iranian former policeman, who escaped the country after refusing to fire on protesters.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Tessa K » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:55 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:25 pm
Why does this forum always take Johnson government's "policies" at face value? Dumb.

This has zero to do with asylum. The house thing had nothing to with housing.
We know he always has ulterior motives but that doesn't make it less interesting (and sometimes horrifying) to observe how each particular policy plays out or to point out the flaws in what we're told. Otherwise the only thing to say every damn time is: money and ego.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by IvanV » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:05 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:55 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:25 pm
Why does this forum always take Johnson government's "policies" at face value? Dumb.

This has zero to do with asylum. The house thing had nothing to with housing.
We know he always has ulterior motives but that doesn't make it less interesting (and sometimes horrifying) to observe how each particular policy plays out or to point out the flaws in what we're told. Otherwise the only thing to say every damn time is: money and ego.
The ulterior motive is often distraction, and appealing to a particular electorate by proving it's not his fault he can't give them what they want. The NI Protocol is brilliant for him because of all the noise it makes. By breaking it, and getting enforced upon, he proves it isn't his fault he can't mend it. And all the noise is distraction from all the crap that's going on. Rwanda is similar. It doesn't matter if ultimately it fails. He appeals to a certain electorate by trying, and it all makes a lot of noise.

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Re: First asylum seeker removals to Rwanda set for 14 June

Post by Trinucleus » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:16 pm

Little waster wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:50 am
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:43 am
Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:34 am
How will dumping refugees in Rwanda stop people smuggling? By the time the refugees get here the smugglers have already been paid.
I think the Daily Mail explained it best when they found ten people seeking asylum who said they wouldn't have bothered if they knew they'd end up in Rwanda.
Ahh Schrödinger's Rwanda which is simultaneously a wonderful safe place refugees will be happy to go to and a dreadful 3rd World hell-hole of which the very thought will cause Ukranians/Syrians etc. to stop fleeing, turn around and head back to the rubble that used to be their house.

And given Article 16 is all the rage at the moment here's Section 16 of the agreement:-
Section 16: the participants will make arrangements for the United Kingdom to settle a portion of Rwanda's most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom
So we are doing swapsies now. We send 300 refugees who want asylum in an English-speaking country to a French-speaking one meanwhile Rwanda sends us 300 refugees who want asylum in a French-speaking country to an English-speaking one. That should help assimilation. All for the low low price of just £120m per year or as it is now known a third of a "Brexit bus". I imagine the racists will be getting the bunting out for that one.

Anyone else getting the impression that Tories are all horrible thick c.nts?
I think it would be very funny if we sent 8 refugees to Rwanda then the plane returned with 300 of theirs. Because this is about cracking down on those evil people smugglers, our lovely Home Secretary is very relaxed about 'genuine' refugees coming here......

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