Banking for volunteer groups

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Fishnut
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Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Fishnut » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:31 pm

I know this is a bit outside the normal remit of this forum but you're smart people with eclectic knowledge so I'm hoping someone may be able to help. I'm on the committee for a couple of volunteer groups who have the same problem - banking. The groups have bank accounts that require two signatures for any withdrawals to me made so that no-one tries to steal money. But as banking is going increasingly online and banks are closing their physical shops this is proving increasingly unworkable.

What we need is a bank account that requires two people to sign off on a withdrawal/transfer etc but through online banking. Does anyone know if there's a bank that offers this sort of service?
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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Gfamily
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Gfamily » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:35 pm

Barclays have something called Dual Authorisation

https://www.barclays.co.uk/help/busines ... dual-auth/
The way it works is that one person creates a payment request (the originator) and the other authorises the payment (the authoriser).
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
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Sciolus
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Sciolus » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:44 pm

Coop. (Might be for registered charities only.)

(I still wince whenever anyone mentions Barclays. You can take the boy out of student politics...)

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discovolante
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by discovolante » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:53 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:44 pm
Coop. (Might be for registered charities only.)

(I still wince whenever anyone mentions Barclays. You can take the boy out of student politics...)
It's not clear but seems to be for any business account?

https://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/busi ... PROD-11466

I don't think there's anything student politicy about wincing at Barlcays...other banks are also winceable at.
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Sciolus
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Sciolus » Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:52 pm

I was thinking of the Coop's charity account, which I'm sure includes online dual-signature stuff, but is only available to
- Registered charity
- Co-operative or community benefit society registered with the FCA
- Credit union
- Community interest company
so maybe not Fishnut's organisations.

Probably before your time, but Barclays were major enablers of the South African apartheid regime, and universally boycotted by students in the 1980s. I know other banks (cough HSBC) have taken on the evil mantle since.

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Gfamily
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Gfamily » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:14 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:52 pm
I was thinking of the Coop's charity account, which I'm sure includes online dual-signature stuff, but is only available to
- Registered charity
- Co-operative or community benefit society registered with the FCA
- Credit union
- Community interest company
so maybe not Fishnut's organisations.

Probably before your time, but Barclays were major enablers of the South African apartheid regime, and universally boycotted by students in the 1980s. I know other banks (cough HSBC) have taken on the evil mantle since.
The Co-op doesn't seem to allow for dual authorisation for online banking
Your authorisation of users of Telephone and Online Banking overrides any existing arrangements
you have with us. For example, if you have signing restrictions or instructions in your account
mandate, these will not apply to the Telephone and Online Banking services.
I wasn't specifically recommending Barclay's for your account, it was more that it's known as Dual Authorisation, and it is not unknown.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Sciolus
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Sciolus » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:33 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:14 pm
The Co-op doesn't seem to allow for dual authorisation for online banking
Your authorisation of users of Telephone and Online Banking overrides any existing arrangements
you have with us. For example, if you have signing restrictions or instructions in your account
mandate, these will not apply to the Telephone and Online Banking services.
I'm still 95% sure they do, because it would be ridiculous not have an option required by 95% of their customers. Unfortunately when I was treasurer for a charity banking with the Coop, I was too much of a luddite to do any significant stuff online. I'll try to remember to ask my replacement. Or Fishnut could just phone 'em up and ask (they were very good at phone enquiries back in the day).

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Gfamily
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Gfamily » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:55 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:33 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:14 pm
The Co-op doesn't seem to allow for dual authorisation for online banking
Your authorisation of users of Telephone and Online Banking overrides any existing arrangements
you have with us. For example, if you have signing restrictions or instructions in your account
mandate, these will not apply to the Telephone and Online Banking services.
I'm still 95% sure they do, because it would be ridiculous not have an option required by 95% of their customers. Unfortunately when I was treasurer for a charity banking with the Coop, I was too much of a luddite to do any significant stuff online. I'll try to remember to ask my replacement. Or Fishnut could just phone 'em up and ask (they were very good at phone enquiries back in the day).
To me, their message makes it seem more than likely that they simply don't have the capability to allow Dual Authorisation using Telephone and Online Banking; but giving them a call is probably the way to find out.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Martin_B » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:38 am

My father is heavily into his local Lions Club, so I'll ask him how they deal with it. However, seeing as he's 77 and one of the younger Lions, I wouldn't hold my breath for a useful answer.
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dccarm
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by dccarm » Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:46 am

Bank of Scotland do this. I'm on the board of our local Scout troop and we have it set up

https://business.bankofscotland.co.uk/o ... ntrol.html

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Trinucleus
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Trinucleus » Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:14 am

If you're happy with single authourisation making the actual payment, you can include in your finacial procedures that any transaction must be agreed by at least one other trustee. I'm treasurer of a group, and when a bill comes in I send an email round asking for approval to pay it, so you have a record. The Lottery ask for dual authourisation for groups they fund, but will, accept this as an alternative

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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by IvanV » Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:37 am

Gfamily wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:35 pm
Barclays have something called Dual Authorisation

https://www.barclays.co.uk/help/busines ... dual-auth/
The way it works is that one person creates a payment request (the originator) and the other authorises the payment (the authoriser).
I am the Treasurer and a trustee of a small charity. I was Treasurer for 20 years of a non-charity non-profit club, a Community Amateur Sports Club and Company Limited By Guarantee, that is almost like being a charity; I'm still their Company Secretary. Suitable bank accounts has been a major issue over the years.

Barclays and Lloyds are the two mainstream banks that offer free bank accounts for charities, clubs, etc, when I last looked. I have used both. The Lloyds online system is much easier and more powerful to use, unless Barclays have recently upgraded their systems. But Lloyds are very slow administratively. It can take a couple of months to get a change of mandate through. But once you are up and running, Lloyds is very easy, and the on-line dual authorisation is very easy to use. Much less onerous than double-signing cheques. We almost never write a cheque these days. Lots of people say "My bank account is great...", but charities, clubs, etc, can't use personal accounts.

What Barclays seemed to do was not offer to the free club/charity customers the same services available to paying business customers. Rather they deliberately made it hard work for you, in the hope that you would upgrade to a paid account. Whereas Lloyds gave you the same service that paying business customers enjoyed. But it's a few years since I last checked out Barclays.

I haven't used the Co-op. A few years ago, when researching an alternative to Barclays, who were making life too much like hard work, I was directed to the Co-op and looked at their offer. It did not meet my requirements, I forget why.

I have also made use of Paypal and Stripe for these clubs. Paypal don't seem to have a dual authorisation on outgoing payments, iirc. Stripe are mainly for incoming money, not outgoing. I like Stripe for incoming, as it is much the quickest/easiest for most customers, so you get more sales. Annoying your customers with difficult transaction mechanisms is a big factor! Online banking transactions are a pain in the rear end for a lot of personal customers - my own bank makes them unnecessarily hard work. Though you do have to pay a commission on the payments with Paypal and Stripe.

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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by Martin_B » Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:16 am

My father has said the process is for the Treasurer to initiate payment and then asks one of the approved authorisers to verify the payment through an email to the bank.

It sounds to me like they (the Lions) aren't making the best use of online banking; I'd have expected banks to set up a system where the Treasurer initiates payment and an authoriser has to log onto the bank's site and make their check (payment details, amount, recipient, etc) within a set timeframe. An email to the bank sounds too last decade to me.
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by IvanV » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:35 pm

Martin_B wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:16 am
My father has said the process is for the Treasurer to initiate payment and then asks one of the approved authorisers to verify the payment through an email to the bank.

It sounds to me like they (the Lions) aren't making the best use of online banking; I'd have expected banks to set up a system where the Treasurer initiates payment and an authoriser has to log onto the bank's site and make their check (payment details, amount, recipient, etc) within a set timeframe. An email to the bank sounds too last decade to me.
What you describe as ideal is certainly the Lloyds system. I was not aware that was available with Barclays for free charity/club accounts when I used them. That is part of why we moved to Lloyds. But that was a few years ago now.

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TAFKAsoveda
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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by TAFKAsoveda » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:19 pm

Are the organisations registered as charities?
Our scout group uses CAF bank which needs two online authorisations. The treasurer sets the first bit and an outhorised person confirms.

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Re: Banking for volunteer groups

Post by TAFKAsoveda » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:20 pm

Authorised! Not sure how that slipped through the autocorrupt

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