Boris: What next?
Re: Boris: What next?
Has anything been mentioned about the inquiry into Johnson lying? Presumably this will still happen.
Re: Boris: What next?
It's also the Brexit Tapes guy, the military historian guy, and the I'm a Star Trek shuttle pilot, AMA guy. He generally does know a fair amount about political and military history.lpm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:03 pmI can't believe the stupidity of that thread. And can't be arsed to go through the errors. Isn't this the train guy, talks about steam engines and stuff?jimbob wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:07 amBut this thread looks accurate
https://twitter.com/garius/status/15449 ... jJN0yK8LzA
Given his appointments so far.
So a few serious thoughts before I run to a meeting. Based on the fact that we live in the literal worst timeline...
...how does Boris Johnson make this EVEN WORSE?
Answer: fill the vacant cabinet roles. /1
lot of discussion then
https://twitter.com/garius/status/15449 ... jJN0yK8LzA
Why is this EVEN WORSE than, say Raab ending up in charge?
Well because we'd be looking at 3 months of Johnson pushing his redemption agenda largely unchecked. AND ALSO a cabinet full of even more overpromoted wannabes WHO ARE NOW FIGHTING FOR THE LEADERSHIP
Whereas we have no idea of your competencies, background, or even your sources, as you choose to remain highly anonymous and not link to anything.
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Re: Boris: What next?
Yeah but they didn’t go into it in great detail during the Liaison Committee because it was covered by a different committee
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works
Re: Boris: What next?
OK, if you want the fisking, his basic mistake is in understanding how political rulers in the UK exert their power. I.e. The Prime Minister and Cabinet Ministers, and how they get their will translated into action on the ground.dyqik wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:41 pmIt's also the Brexit Tapes guy, the military historian guy, and the I'm a Star Trek shuttle pilot, AMA guy. He generally does know a fair amount about political and military history.lpm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:03 pmI can't believe the stupidity of that thread. And can't be arsed to go through the errors. Isn't this the train guy, talks about steam engines and stuff?jimbob wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:07 amBut this thread looks accurate
https://twitter.com/garius/status/15449 ... jJN0yK8LzA
Given his appointments so far.
lot of discussion then
https://twitter.com/garius/status/15449 ... jJN0yK8LzA
Whereas we have no idea of your competencies, background, or even your sources, as you choose to remain highly anonymous and not link to anything.
1) Commons is going to be in recess in a couple of weeks. There is no way to get new legislation through. Tory MPs are concentrating on their little civil war, then people are on holiday, then there's a new PM for when it comes out of recess.
2) Power is translated via the civil service, which remains unaffected and doesn't go wild like this thread implies. There are specific rules for what powers can be used during general election campaigns which by convention have also begun to apply to these interregnum periods.
3) He's factually wrong that all the cabinet is going to be fighting for the leadership for three months. The candidates will emerge within days and will be whittled down to the final two within two weeks from now. It's simply not correct that they can or will use Cabinet Minister positions as part of the fight, particularly as it's likely at least one of the final two won't be a cabinet minister.
4) We are not "looking at 3 months of Johnson pushing his redemption agenda largely unchecked" because the process doesn't take that long. Johnson has zero political capital to push through any agenda.
5) He ignores the power of patronage, which is in fact the biggest danger during the interregnum. Johnson could distort things, but only if he had the energy and work ethic to do so.
6) All Cabinet Ministers are temporary now. Every one needs to prepare for a new PM in two months time. They will simply ignore Johnson if he tries to exert power through them. This is basic politics.
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Re: Boris: What next?
lpm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:58 pmOK, if you want the fisking, his basic mistake is in understanding how political rulers in the UK exert their power. I.e. The Prime Minister and Cabinet Ministers, and how they get their will translated into action on the ground.dyqik wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:41 pmIt's also the Brexit Tapes guy, the military historian guy, and the I'm a Star Trek shuttle pilot, AMA guy. He generally does know a fair amount about political and military history.
Whereas we have no idea of your competencies, background, or even your sources, as you choose to remain highly anonymous and not link to anything.
1) Commons is going to be in recess in a couple of weeks. There is no way to get new legislation through. Tory MPs are concentrating on their little civil war, then people are on holiday, then there's a new PM for when it comes out of recess.
2) Power is translated via the civil service, which remains unaffected and doesn't go wild like this thread implies. There are specific rules for what powers can be used during general election campaigns which by convention have also begun to apply to these interregnum periods.
3) He's factually wrong that all the cabinet is going to be fighting for the leadership for three months. The candidates will emerge within days and will be whittled down to the final two within two weeks from now. It's simply not correct that they can or will use Cabinet Minister positions as part of the fight, particularly as it's likely at least one of the final two won't be a cabinet minister.
4) We are not "looking at 3 months of Johnson pushing his redemption agenda largely unchecked" because the process doesn't take that long. Johnson has zero political capital to push through any agenda.
5) He ignores the power of patronage, which is in fact the biggest danger during the interregnum. Johnson could distort things, but only if he had the energy and work ethic to do so.
6) All Cabinet Ministers are temporary now. Every one needs to prepare for a new PM in two months time. They will simply ignore Johnson if he tries to exert power through them. This is basic politics.
True1) Commons is going to be in recess in a couple of weeks. There is no way to get new legislation through. Tory MPs are concentrating on their little civil war, then people are on holiday, then there's a new PM for when it comes out of recess.
And Johnson has shown respect for convention, how? He has a history of violating unwritten rules.2) Power is translated via the civil service, which remains unaffected and doesn't go wild like this thread implies. There are specific rules for what powers can be used during general election campaigns which by convention have also begun to apply to these interregnum periods.
We really don't know any of the timetable at this time, only that we will know the timetable soon3) He's factually wrong that all the cabinet is going to be fighting for the leadership for three months. The candidates will emerge within days and will be whittled down to the final two within two weeks from now. It's simply not correct that they can or will use Cabinet Minister positions as part of the fight, particularly as it's likely at least one of the final two won't be a cabinet minister.
Johnson probably doesn't believe that he has no political capital.4) We are not "looking at 3 months of Johnson pushing his redemption agenda largely unchecked" because the process doesn't take that long. Johnson has zero political capital to push through any agenda.
Johnson has been pretty diligent in working towards getting into power. And the playing political games could easily appeal5) He ignores the power of patronage, which is in fact the biggest danger during the interregnum. Johnson could distort things, but only if he had the energy and work ethic to do so.
If they're jockeying for position, due to the above, then that is not the case6) All Cabinet Ministers are temporary now. Every one needs to prepare for a new PM in two months time. They will simply ignore Johnson if he tries to exert power through them. This is basic politics.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Boris: What next?
Lame ducks are, you know, notorious for being lame.
Claiming Johnson is going to be a powerful duck is therefore an extraordinary claim. It needs extraordinary evidence.
Claiming Johnson is going to be a powerful duck is therefore an extraordinary claim. It needs extraordinary evidence.
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Re: Boris: What next?
This is what Johnson will actually be concentrating on:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/ ... 0244578304EXCL: Boris Johnson and wife Carrie are planning big wedding bash at Chequers within weeks - with sources saying it's part of reason he wants to stay as caretaker.
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021
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Re: Boris: What next?
British citizens weigh in... https://twitter.com/kenmccoll/status/15 ... 7986898949
Re: Boris: What next?
Putin's attempts to keep his Nato mole in power?Brightonian wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:46 pmBritish citizens weigh in... https://twitter.com/kenmccoll/status/15 ... 7986898949
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Re: Boris: What next?
Johnson did not, in the end, side with Russia. Whatever they got from him, they rented him, rather than bought him. I can see Putin wanting him to stay, though, as there's every chance someone like Wallace would mean a bit less chaos, no reduction in support for Ukraine (possibly an increase, even) and someone less obnoxious than Johnson might be able to do a better job of getting other nations onboard with military support.WFJ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:50 pmPutin's attempts to keep his Nato mole in power?Brightonian wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:46 pmBritish citizens weigh in... https://twitter.com/kenmccoll/status/15 ... 7986898949
I've got to admit, I was disappointed. I was hoping Johnson would try sending yet more to Ukraine as a distraction. I was hoping for an Astute class
Re: Boris: What next?
Yaaay! Philbo!philbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:35 pmI thought there might be some fun viewpoints about all this here.. but my, there was a lot to catch up on. Thanks to the war buffs for insights on Ukraine, not sure I've read all of it, but some interesting stuff.
Not convinced Boris is going to leave when the time comes: he has resigned as party leader, but not PM. A lot of this still applies: https://davidallengreen.com/2022/07/wha ... to-resign/
..I'm not the only one who thinks so. Odd to be on the same page as Cummings https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/ ... 4572430337
My former MP, Steve Baker has delusions of adequacy; but given the huge dearth of talent available, I guess he actually has a chance. Which is kinda scary. Braverman as "leader" seems about as plausible as Medvedev as leader with Putin as his PM.
Odd aside: back in 2020, I thought suggesting Trump was trying a "coup de tw.t" might have been original. I was very wrong, even back then.
Re: Boris: What next?
For maximum chaos, Boris could decide he doesn't want to go at a point that the queen is incapacitated due to ill health.
Re: Boris: What next?
I presume we still have the ability to appoint a regent
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
Re: Boris: What next?
Biden's statement on Johnson's resignation does not even mention Johnson.
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Re: Boris: What next?
In news completely unrelated to Boris's desire to stay on, he and Carrie have a massive bash planned at Chequers later this month
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-poli ... pe=share
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-poli ... pe=share
Re: Boris: What next?
For #4 you are so wrong. It might not take 3 months, fair enough, but every single day he is in office he will be pushing a redemption agenda. Not by doing anything, but by spouting endless lies about how greaat he has been. Self-mythologising is all he does, and in that he is aided and abetted by the craven and worthless members of the 5th column 4th estate, who have throughout his entire adult life supported and enabled him, despite knowing precisely what sort of person he is.lpm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:58 pmOK, if you want the fisking, his basic mistake is in understanding how political rulers in the UK exert their power. I.e. The Prime Minister and Cabinet Ministers, and how they get their will translated into action on the ground.dyqik wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:41 pmIt's also the Brexit Tapes guy, the military historian guy, and the I'm a Star Trek shuttle pilot, AMA guy. He generally does know a fair amount about political and military history.
Whereas we have no idea of your competencies, background, or even your sources, as you choose to remain highly anonymous and not link to anything.
1) Commons is going to be in recess in a couple of weeks. There is no way to get new legislation through. Tory MPs are concentrating on their little civil war, then people are on holiday, then there's a new PM for when it comes out of recess.
2) Power is translated via the civil service, which remains unaffected and doesn't go wild like this thread implies. There are specific rules for what powers can be used during general election campaigns which by convention have also begun to apply to these interregnum periods.
3) He's factually wrong that all the cabinet is going to be fighting for the leadership for three months. The candidates will emerge within days and will be whittled down to the final two within two weeks from now. It's simply not correct that they can or will use Cabinet Minister positions as part of the fight, particularly as it's likely at least one of the final two won't be a cabinet minister.
4) We are not "looking at 3 months of Johnson pushing his redemption agenda largely unchecked" because the process doesn't take that long. Johnson has zero political capital to push through any agenda.
5) He ignores the power of patronage, which is in fact the biggest danger during the interregnum. Johnson could distort things, but only if he had the energy and work ethic to do so.
6) All Cabinet Ministers are temporary now. Every one needs to prepare for a new PM in two months time. They will simply ignore Johnson if he tries to exert power through them. This is basic politics.
Re: Boris: What next?
WTF even is a "redemption agenda"? You seem to think Boris Johnson is going to completely change personality and become dedicated to hard work, clever orchestration of policy and articulation of his vision.
What exact policy are you imagine he'll manage to push through during his lame duck two months? He achieved zero while in power except his terrible Brexit deal but now he's going to start achieving things?
We all know he's going to use that time for shagging opportunities, cashing in with bits of petty corruption and partying with their suitcase of wine.
What exact policy are you imagine he'll manage to push through during his lame duck two months? He achieved zero while in power except his terrible Brexit deal but now he's going to start achieving things?
We all know he's going to use that time for shagging opportunities, cashing in with bits of petty corruption and partying with their suitcase of wine.
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Re: Boris: What next?
TBF, Johnson's resignation speech does not even mention the word resignation.WFJ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:16 pmBiden's statement on Johnson's resignation does not even mention Johnson.
Re: Boris: What next?
Johnson is incapable of change, yes, but I read it as him thinking that the longer he remains PM, the more chance of a Deus ex machina restoring his political fortune.lpm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:09 pmWTF even is a "redemption agenda"? You seem to think Boris Johnson is going to completely change personality and become dedicated to hard work, clever orchestration of policy and articulation of his vision.
What exact policy are you imagine he'll manage to push through during his lame duck two months? He achieved zero while in power except his terrible Brexit deal but now he's going to start achieving things?
We all know he's going to use that time for shagging opportunities, cashing in with bits of petty corruption and partying with their suitcase of wine.
Implausible schemes that Baldrick might come up with.
And the chance for petty revenge.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Boris: What next?
Is go for the last of those, plus ego (not going because sometimes told him to) and spite. He's famous for bearing grudges and now he's got them in spades.
Re: Boris: What next?
Or the reason the Tory party has lost confidence in him.dyqik wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:46 pmTBF, Johnson's resignation speech does not even mention the word resignation.WFJ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:16 pmBiden's statement on Johnson's resignation does not even mention Johnson.
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now I sin till ten past three
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Re: Boris: What next?
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Boris: What next?
No, I think he's going to use the bully pulpit of being PM to repeatedly claim that he got all the big decisions right and that he was the greatest PM evah and would have been even greater and this would have been a new camelot, but for those backstabbing bastard cowards, and the media will just repeat his lies with barely murmur of even the mildest contradictionlpm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:09 pmWTF even is a "redemption agenda"? You seem to think Boris Johnson is going to completely change personality and become dedicated to hard work, clever orchestration of policy and articulation of his vision.
What exact policy are you imagine he'll manage to push through during his lame duck two months? He achieved zero while in power except his terrible Brexit deal but now he's going to start achieving things?
We all know he's going to use that time for shagging opportunities, cashing in with bits of petty corruption and partying with their suitcase of wine.
Re: Boris: What next?
His strategy of herd immunity didn't play out too wellGrumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:41 pmOr the reason the Tory party has lost confidence in him.dyqik wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:46 pmTBF, Johnson's resignation speech does not even mention the word resignation.WFJ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:16 pmBiden's statement on Johnson's resignation does not even mention Johnson.
I was chatting to my sister this evening, and commented that were something untoward to happen to either or both candidates (once the field had been whittled down to two), or some related "emergency" that required the hand on the tiller not be changed while that emergency played out.. well, that would not surprise me one iota.
Whenever I hear "he got the big decisions right", it reminds me of those who said Mussolini "got the trains running on time"