Who's next?

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
dyqik
Light of Blast
Posts: 5717
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: Who's next?

Post by dyqik » Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:19 pm

WFJ wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:08 pm
lpm wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:50 pm
I have a suspicion Truss might not be as good as we expect.
Do you mean good as in good for the country, or good as in good for comedy reasons?
Trump has shown that there's always new lows to be reached, so I can definitely read this either way.

IvanV
Dorkwood
Posts: 1452
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 11:12 am

Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:24 pm

jimbob wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:33 pm
Little waster wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:27 pm
I read with some amusement an article on the Guardian a few weeks ago that actually Truss was really clever* and her odd behaviours and statements were a function of her being too intelligent rather than the whale omelette she frequently appears to be, no really.

*I think the principal evidence of this was her liking for giving underlings snap verbal maths tests and then berating them when they can't instantly mentally park the ramifications of what the latest North Korean missile test are in order to tell her what "7 x 8" is.

I'm not sure "intelligent" is the primary characteristic I'd associate with that sort of behaviour. :|
I have seen "intellectually rigid" used. Which would fit with all that. And even how she could graduate simply by regurgitating what she had been taught.

Intellectually rigid, and without principles so following whatever policy is good for her career.
A common reason for saying Liz Truss is really clever is that, like me, she went to Merton College, and you have to be "really clever" to go there. In recent years it has consolidated a reputation of being the most academically focused of Oxford undergrad colleges, which previously St John's probably had a better claim to.

The other current MPs who went to Merton I am aware of are Jesse Norman (Hereford) and Jonathan Lord (Woking). Norman has a reputation of being clever, but he was foolish to support Johnson and he now regrets that. No one would describe Lord as some super-clever type. You've probably never heard of him. He's a right-wing foot-soldier who keeps his head well below the parapet.

About 15 years ago, a student's alternative guide to the colleges described Merton as "where fun goes to die". It's a description that has stuck to the place like a spat-out chewing gum, and you can hardly avoid discovering it if you think about going there. But I think they quite like it really. It means their applicants are seriously focused on study. And it is since then that they have consolidated their position of being the college most regularly placed on top of the Norrington Table.

When I was there, there were a number of more normal students who seemed to have applied unaware that they were applying to a very academic college, but nevertheless got in by some strange accident of fate. Since Merton didn't have the St John's (alleged) policy of trying to kick people out merely for mediocre results, St John's usually came top in those days.

The reality is that skill in academic study is a rather different thing from political intelligence and political skill. And understanding what makes a practically successful policy. Truss did a bachelors degree in PPE, which no economist would consider as including a serious study of economics.

Jimbob's characterisation that her main skill seems to be abandoning principle to follow whatever trend will do her career best is what I see too. Especially when compared with her LibDem conference speech that has been recorded for posterity. She has had some strong examples to follow of late.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:58 pm

Fwiw I wouldn't particularly consider someone clever simply because they went to Oxford or Cambridge Universities. It's a risk factor for cleverness, sure, but not a guarantee. Cleverness is much more about what you do with it, and you only have to look at Boris Johnson to see the effect that, for example, exceptional narcissism and a total lack of self-restraint can have as limiting factors on the practical impact of intelligence. Not that Johnson is necessarily that intelligent, of course. He's strategically blind, latches onto moon-shooting infrastructure projects faster than a rottweiler onto a child's face and has a particularly stunted set of ethics even for someone sent to a boarding school as a child.
They loved each other and believed they loved mankind, they fought each other and believed they fought the world.

User avatar
Gfamily
Light of Blast
Posts: 4279
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: Who's next?

Post by Gfamily » Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:56 pm

Blatant misrepresentation by the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62765529
Tory leadership hopeful Liz Truss would have to raise taxes or make cuts elsewhere to meet her spending pledges on defence, a think tank has said.
In a report, the Royal United Services Institute (Rusi) said her commitment to spend 3% of national income on defence by 2030 would cost an extra £157bn.
Obviously, Truss's plan isn't to spend more on defence, but simply to allow the national income to decline until defence catches up with the 3% target.

She's out foxed her critics by playing 1D chess.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
bjn
After Pie
Posts: 2143
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:58 pm
Location: London

Re: Who's next?

Post by bjn » Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:43 am

lpm wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:50 pm
I have a suspicion Truss might not be as good as we expect.
I thoroughly expect her to fail to achieve anywhere my already low expectations.

There’s a saying in software engineering that things always take twice as long to do as you expected them, even when you have factored in taking twice as long. It’s sort of like that.

My expectations will be continually revised downwards and asymptotically approach a level of despair that I cannot yet conceive.

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3884
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Who's next?

Post by Tessa K » Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:48 am

There's only so far you can go to allay despair with jokes about trusses containing bollocks.

User avatar
Brightonian
Dorkwood
Posts: 1157
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:16 pm
Location: Usually UK, often France and Ireland

Re: Who's next?

Post by Brightonian » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:56 pm

bjn wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:43 am
lpm wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:50 pm
I have a suspicion Truss might not be as good as we expect.
I thoroughly expect her to fail to achieve anywhere my already low expectations.

There’s a saying in software engineering that things always take twice as long to do as you expected them, even when you have factored in taking twice as long. It’s sort of like that.

My expectations will be continually revised downwards and asymptotically approach a level of despair that I cannot yet conceive.
Hofstadter's law

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:07 am

I'm concerned that people might think this is my fault.
They loved each other and believed they loved mankind, they fought each other and believed they fought the world.

User avatar
Grumble
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3556
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Who's next?

Post by Grumble » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:19 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:07 am
I'm concerned that people might think this is my fault.
Truss’s publicist aren’t you?
A bit churlish

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:34 am

I would suggest more a sort of an unintentional Cassandra
They loved each other and believed they loved mankind, they fought each other and believed they fought the world.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:39 am

Truss 81,326 (57.4%)
Sunak 60,399 (42.6%)

Turnout 82%

My God have mercy on our souls.
They loved each other and believed they loved mankind, they fought each other and believed they fought the world.

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 4958
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:41 am

f.cking hell, EPD, why the hell did you do this?
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:50 am

I originally created that gif because the vacuity is just so stark, it seemed like the bottom of the barrel in terms of conservative party talent.

I suppose I just made the whole thing inevitable. I'm so, so sorry. I didn't mean any of this.
They loved each other and believed they loved mankind, they fought each other and believed they fought the world.

IvanV
Dorkwood
Posts: 1452
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 11:12 am

Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:51 am

Like The Simpsons and Donald Trump?

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 4958
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:53 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:50 am
I'm so, so sorry.
Saying sorry isn't enough.

Say sorry, then pause for applause, then look alarmed when the applause doesn't emerge, then stand rigid when half-hearted applause belatedly occurs.

Then repeat your trademark failed-pause-for-applause trick several times.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 9623
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Who's next?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:02 pm

Thank f.ck I've emigrated.

Good luck to the rest of you.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 4958
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:13 pm

Luck? Where we're going we won't need luck.

We will need food parcels, firework and rat recipes.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
TopBadger
Snowbonk
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:33 pm
Location: Halfway up

Re: Who's next?

Post by TopBadger » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:13 pm

lpm wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:53 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:50 am
I'm so, so sorry.
Saying sorry isn't enough.

Say sorry, then pause for applause, then look alarmed when the applause doesn't emerge, then stand rigid when half-hearted applause belatedly occurs.

Then repeat your trademark failed-pause-for-applause trick several times.
Lolz. She is more wooden than pinocchio, and less charisma than a brick. Apparently she can expect some letters of no confidence to go in immediately...

Will she be the leader at the next GE?
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html

User avatar
Aitch
Snowbonk
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:53 am
Location: St Aines

Re: Who's next?

Post by Aitch » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:19 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:13 pm
...
Lolz. She is more wooden than pinocchio, and less charisma than a brick. Apparently she can expect some letters of no confidence to go in immediately...

Will she be the leader at the next GE?
And when will it be?

Will she tough it out or call an early one she is sure she'll lose so that the Tories can blame Labour?
Some people call me strange.
I prefer unconventional.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept eccentric
.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 9623
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Who's next?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:27 pm

lpm wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:13 pm
Luck? Where we're going we won't need luck.

We will need food parcels, firework and rat recipes.
I expect any food parcels and fireworks will get held up in customs, but I'll look into rat recipes.

I'm sure there's an element of luck involved in catching the biggest, tastiest, least-diseased rat too.

Didn't your parents teach you not to mess around with animated gifs, EPD? For shame.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 9623
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Who's next?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:31 pm

Aitch wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:19 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:13 pm
...
Lolz. She is more wooden than pinocchio, and less charisma than a brick. Apparently she can expect some letters of no confidence to go in immediately...

Will she be the leader at the next GE?
And when will it be?

Will she tough it out or call an early one she is sure she'll lose so that the Tories can blame Labour?
Can't see sufficient Tory MPs voting to lose their jobs and access to the gravy-train, so no-conf won't happen.

Similarly, I don't think Truss would be deluded enough to expect to win an early GE, unless Starmer joins ISIS or mentions socialism or something else catastrophic.

Next election is due by 28 January 2025. Wouldn't expect to shave much off that.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
TopBadger
Snowbonk
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:33 pm
Location: Halfway up

Re: Who's next?

Post by TopBadger » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:35 pm

Aitch wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:19 pm

And when will it be?

Will she tough it out or call an early one she is sure she'll lose so that the Tories can blame Labour?
I think she either toughs it out, or does something(s) incredibly populist in her first month in charge then calls one whilst riding the crest of whatever positive wave she can create.

Longer shes in office the more people will get to know and detest her. She'll be worse than Boris, she can't work the affable bumbling act to get herself out of the corners she will inevitably get herself into.
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html

IvanV
Dorkwood
Posts: 1452
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 11:12 am

Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:38 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:02 pm
Thank f.ck I've emigrated.

Good luck to the rest of you.
That was true on 23 July 2019 when ABdeP Johnson was elected leader of the English National Party, to use a more accurate designation.

In looking up that date, I was entertained to discover that when I typed "Boris Johnson" into the search box on Wikipedia, the second option offered to me was this. Unfortunately the anti-swear forum editor modifies the URL so the link doesn't work.

User avatar
Martin_B
Dorkwood
Posts: 1363
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Who's next?

Post by Martin_B » Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:51 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:13 pm
Lolz. She is more wooden than pinocchio, and less charisma than a brick. Apparently she can expect some letters of no confidence to go in immediately...

Will she be the leader at the next GE?
The Tories have rules on a leader winning a leadership contest not being able to be challenged again for 12 months (without half the party submitting letters of no confidence), but do they have rules about challengers winning a leadership contest not being able to be challenged within a set time frame? Because Truss wasn't the leader the MPs wanted, but if they submit those letters and Truss can't contest the election, can Boris make a comeback?
"My interest is in the future, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life there"

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3884
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Who's next?

Post by Tessa K » Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:18 pm

I thought this would be a short lived thread when I started it but I reckoned without the lively state of current politics. And I mean lively in the sense a pit of vipers is lively.

Post Reply