Who's next?

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philbo
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Re: Who's next?

Post by philbo » Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:34 am

Blackcountryboy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:52 am
We had an active Conservative at work, who said, in answer to our criticisms of Stokes, that he had not come over like that when they were interviewing the potential candidates. We suggested that they should deselect him at the next election; he said we can’t do that, it is too damaging to the party.
It appears the party is more impprtant than the country.
Unfortunately, this is the attitude of most local party types: the whole "he didn't come over like that when interviewing" is a pathetic excuse, because (apart from national party catastrophes like we've just had) for most seats in the country that committee is choosing the local MP, and it's easy to appear as the person they want to see for half an hour.

I don't think it's only "party more important than country": the people on these committees also don't want to admit they made a mistake.

Once selected & especially once elected, the barrier for removing an MP is very high.. I wonder who set those rules :roll:

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TopBadger
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Re: Who's next?

Post by TopBadger » Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:11 pm

Seriously? Jenrick tops the first poll? Just when you think they can sink no lower.
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Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:17 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:11 pm
Seriously? Jenrick tops the first poll? Just when you think they can sink no lower.
That was my initial reaction. But then I remembered that, with the present candidate list, inevitably they must sink lower. For the only candidate who isn't lower than they have already sunk is Tugendhat, and he has no chance. It seems to me from the first ballot that the winner is likely to be one of Jenrick, Badenoch or Cleverly.

This is actually what some plausible commentators said would happen. It is the common reaction of political parties in such a pickle to start by staying loyal to the very thing that destroyed them, and so initially react in entirely the wrong way. It will only be after the next period continues the disaster that maybe some group will be able to start to reconstruct a sensible party instead of Blukip.

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Sciolus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Sciolus » Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:48 pm

Yes, it's what they did 1997-200whatever, though I don't think any of that lot then were as atrocious as the current candidates.

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Grumble
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Grumble » Fri Sep 06, 2024 5:42 am

Sciolus wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:48 pm
Yes, it's what they did 1997-200whatever, though I don't think any of that lot then were as atrocious as the current candidates.
There is a smaller pool of worse candidates. I looked at the numbers they got and laughed because I had forgotten how few MPs they have.
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IvanV
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Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:33 pm

The one so obscure I can never remember his name - quickly looks it up - Mel Stride, is unsurprisingly out. And so we are left with Jenrick - who came top again, Badenoch, Cleverley and Tugendhat. There's a widening gap behind Badenoch so it is looking more likely the choice offered to the party members after the party conference will be Jenrick and Badenoch. I remain astonished that Jenrick is leading, I couldn't imagine him having any popularity. But the other two right wingers look equally unelectable from this distance.

With four candidates remaining, we've arrived at a weird parallel with the Labour leadership election, when Milliband resigned after losing the 2015 election. The 4 candidates then were 3 continuity candidates, and someone else. Just like here we have, in effect, 3 continuity candidates and someone else. And similarly to 2015, numerous Labour voters were pissed off with continuity, as they felt Labour hadn't done enough for them under Blair/Brown, which is a large part of why Labour did so badly in the 2015 election. The Tories have also been kicked out because the voters are similarly pissed off with continuity in the Tories, which has amounted to continuing chaos and inequality and weak economic performance, even if Sunak was quite as bad as Truss.

One difference is that in the Labour case the someone else was an extremist - Corbyn - and the continuity candidates were moderates. Whereas for the conservatives, it's the odd one out who is the moderate. In each case, we would say the odd one had no chance, at this point, but it didn't transpire that way for Labour.

For the more important difference is that Labour then had a system facilitating entry-ists to quickly join the party and elect the non-continuity candidate. But because those entry-ists did not represent the broader requirements of Labour voters either, the non-continuity candidate was even worse than the continuity ones. It was the wrong kind of non-continuity candidate for Labour success. The actual Conservative party membership rather like the continuity candidates, and rules prevent entry-ists suddenly piling in and choosing the odd-one-out. For having observed how Corbyn was elected, all political parties have now ensured their rules prevent something like that happening.

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Re: Who's next?

Post by TopBadger » Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:42 pm

Is it fair to describe Corbyn as an extremist?

I'm not sure he was seen that way by the voting public. Lets not forget that, although Corbyn lost his GE, he got more votes in total than Starmer did for his win.
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Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:35 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:42 pm
Is it fair to describe Corbyn as an extremist?
Corbyn had friendly relationships with dictators, including right wing ones, and by their friends shall you know them...

But even if he wasn't the closet authoritarian I worried he might be, ultimately it depends how extreme you require your extremists to be to attach that term to them. Even ignoring my suspicions, he is as extreme in his direction as the right-wingers in the Conservative party, who I attach the same word to.

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Re: Who's next?

Post by Tristan » Wed Oct 09, 2024 3:32 pm

LOOOOOOOOOOOL! It appears Cleverly has f.cked himself by trying to be too clever.

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Re: Who's next?

Post by TopBadger » Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:25 am

He was probably the least bad of the three left. Had certainly held the highest position in cabinet. So, being the sanest choice available to put to members, he obviously had to go.

I'm not sure who the "Emperor Palpatine" figure is in all this, but either way, come 2nd November, the Tory parties transformation to Reform will be complete.
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Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:02 am

Hahaha they've absolutely f.cked it
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Opti » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:05 am

So, which candidate will the oh-so-sophisticated constituency that makes up the modern Conservative party vote for?
The white guy or the ... other one? Such a conundrum. I think they'll go for ... the other one as part of their search for relevance in the 'modern' era.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Who's next?

Post by Gfamily » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:10 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:02 am
Hahaha they've absolutely f.cked it
The choice is for the evil of two lessers
(Stolen from BlueSky)
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lpm
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Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:28 am

Pretty good chance Johnson stands in a safe seat in 2028, becomes leader after Badenoch gets fired. Then tries to win in 2032 with full-on MAGAism.
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Re: Who's next?

Post by dyqik » Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:01 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:28 am
Pretty good chance Johnson stands in a safe seat in 2028, becomes leader after Badenoch gets fired. Then tries to win in 2032 with full-on MAGAism.
Eh? The next election doesn't need to be until 2029, and then 2034 after that.

At which point Johnson will be 70, and significantly more of a wreck than he is now. Plus out of the public eye for at least five years.

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lpm
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Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:28 pm

Elections in the UK are every 4 years, when govt is cruising to a safe win. 1983, 1987, 2001, 2005.

They are 5 years when a govt is struggling to stay in power. 1979, 1992, 1997, 2010, 2015.

2028 will be the time to get reelected, given Badenoch's temp job as leader.
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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:44 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:28 pm
Elections in the UK are every 4 years, when govt is cruising to a safe win. 1983, 1987, 2001, 2005.

They are 5 years when a govt is struggling to stay in power. 1979, 1992, 1997, 2010, 2015.

2028 will be the time to get reelected, given Badenoch's temp job as leader.
I agree about the timing of elections.

But dyqik has a good point about whether Johnson is physically up to it. He's in pretty bad shape now and in 2032 he'll be 68. All his high living will take a toll.

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Re: Who's next?

Post by dyqik » Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:49 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:44 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:28 pm
Elections in the UK are every 4 years, when govt is cruising to a safe win. 1983, 1987, 2001, 2005.

They are 5 years when a govt is struggling to stay in power. 1979, 1992, 1997, 2010, 2015.

2028 will be the time to get reelected, given Badenoch's temp job as leader.
I agree about the timing of elections.

But dyqik has a good point about whether Johnson is physically up to it. He's in pretty bad shape now and in 2032 he'll be 68. All his high living will take a toll.
It's also whether he's mentally up for it, after years of of the spotlight. Why become an MP with all of the scrutiny that brings after that.

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lpm
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Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:58 pm

Lol, you can't help bringing reality into modern politics.

There's an obese and old guy 50/50 from returning to power and you're ruling out our English idiot on the grounds he'll be obese and old?
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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:16 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:58 pm
Lol, you can't help bringing reality into modern politics.

There's an obese and old guy 50/50 from returning to power and you're ruling out our English idiot on the grounds he'll be obese and old?
For all his faults Trump isn't that unhealthy - for example he doesn't drink alcohol or smoke, and takes regular exercise.

I'm assuming that Johnson is a candidate for a heart attack before he reaches 68. He's been a notorious boozer for decades, smokes cigars, and rarely exercises.

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Re: Who's next?

Post by Tessa K » Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:08 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:16 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:58 pm
Lol, you can't help bringing reality into modern politics.

There's an obese and old guy 50/50 from returning to power and you're ruling out our English idiot on the grounds he'll be obese and old?
For all his faults Trump isn't that unhealthy - for example he doesn't drink alcohol or smoke, and takes regular exercise.

I'm assuming that Johnson is a candidate for a heart attack before he reaches 68. He's been a notorious boozer for decades, smokes cigars, and rarely exercises.
Rately exercises? We've all seen photos of him jogging 🤣🤣

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Grumble
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Grumble » Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:23 pm

Are we counting Trump playing golf - using a cart - as exercise?
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Gfamily » Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:51 pm

My guess is that there's about 115 MPs who thought "I might have a chance next time, so we don't want someone in any way capable"
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Re: Who's next?

Post by dyqik » Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:32 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:16 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:58 pm
Lol, you can't help bringing reality into modern politics.

There's an obese and old guy 50/50 from returning to power and you're ruling out our English idiot on the grounds he'll be obese and old?
For all his faults Trump isn't that unhealthy - for example he doesn't drink alcohol or smoke, and takes regular exercise.
And apparently regularly shits himself on stage, judging by tonight's rants.

Trump's infirmities wouldn't get covered up by the UK press in the same way that the US press does. The UK press is far more into beginning everyone down.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:02 am

Tessa K wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:08 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:16 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:58 pm
Lol, you can't help bringing reality into modern politics.

There's an obese and old guy 50/50 from returning to power and you're ruling out our English idiot on the grounds he'll be obese and old?
For all his faults Trump isn't that unhealthy - for example he doesn't drink alcohol or smoke, and takes regular exercise.

I'm assuming that Johnson is a candidate for a heart attack before he reaches 68. He's been a notorious boozer for decades, smokes cigars, and rarely exercises.
Rately exercises? We've all seen photos of him jogging 🤣🤣
Unfit man in his 60s who does nothing all year and then goes out for a jog is in prime heart attack territory.

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