Who's next?

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tom p
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Re: Who's next?

Post by tom p » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:59 pm

Little waster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:01 pm
tenchboy wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:43 pm

And didn't D.Cammy go to referendum to shut the brexiteers the f.ck up once and for all? - because he didn't beleive the country was so stupid as to actually vote leave?; and when it would come back to stay (as he thought it would) he could then flip it out of the court for good.
His mistake was in underestimating the stupidity of the british people: you can laugh at him for it but it's hard to knock him for having faith in the collective common sense (even if it was misplaced) when just about everyone since has relied on that stupidity to advance their own interests and get where they are today.
But the counter-argument is he made a hash of the referendum through a number of obvious and crucial mistakes.

1. He never expected there to even to be a referendum, it was just an electoral wheeze to nick a few hundred UKIP voters in some key marginals and put some spurious clear blue water between the Tories and their Coalition partners. He fully expected 2015 to result in another Coalition with a much-shrunken and chastened LD party. He would then buy off the LDs with a promise to ditch the referendum and then pin the blame on them when the ERG objected. Meanwhile he could go back to the Blukip voters and say "look what the mean LDs made me do, now give me a workable majority in 2020 and we'll finish the job, pinkie promise." Ditching the referendum under those circumstances was a "Free Action" for Cameron and the likelihood is the LDs would have been so grateful to get even that they wouldn't have pushed for anything else, in which case Cameron would have had free rein to implement the rest of his manifesto with the un-complaining support of the rump of the LD MPs who had proven loyaler than his own back-benchers. It was a supposed win-win for Cameron, in the end it worked too well for him with the LDs imploding and the Blukippers giving him a full majority. At that point he shat himself as he now had to implement it.

Now that initial mistake lead to the others:-

2. Not putting in the groundwork. With idiocies such as withdrawing from the EPP and the shambles of the EU re-negotiation he had already pump-primed the Eurosceptics while undermining his own credibility in making the pro-EU argument, all compounded by an AWOL Labour Party and a shattered and discredited LD kicking away the other pro-EU supports.

3. Scheduling the referendum for the mid-terms. After 6 years of austerity and in the midst of the usual mid-term blues he essentially pulled down his pants and offered the public his buttocks with "Kick Me" written across it. Unsurprisingly they obliged.

4. The wording of the question. First, it was supposed to be a choice between the "new and improved" re-negotiated deal and leave, but after he had made such a hash of the re-negotiation it was no longer felt even worth making the offer. Then it became a straight choice between Remain and Leave, a choice between Remaining in the known imperfect status quo and whatever personal fantasy Leave you could imagine; at a stroke maximising the Leave vote as old-school Lexiteers, Singapore-on-Thames zealots and the "no one is talking about leaving the Single Market" moderates could all paint in whatever mutually-exclusive sunny upland they wanted onto the same binary outcome. The wording should have been specific on spelling out what Leave actually meant, was it the Norway option, the Swiss option, the Turkish option or the Canada-plus option even if it meant having multiple questions and a run-off. As the May premiership taught us not one of those specific Leave options could ever summon even a plurality of support, only by lumping all of them in together did they scrape together the fabled 52%. Instead we came within hours of the Mauritius-minus option and ended up with the current half-baked deal which is already in crisis, with all the time the Brexiteers disingenuously claiming whatever was on the table at that given moment was the immutable Will of the People chosen with full knowledge of what it entailed.

5. The referendum criteria. They could have put in a say 60% supermajority requirement, or a 4-nation lock or a minimum turnout or a STV-voting model or 16+ voting age or ex-pat voting or EU citizen voting or any of a half-dozen ways to ensure any drastic change to the constitution genuinely reflected a true majority of the people affected, instead we has a 50%+1 winner-takes all on a 72% turn-out of UK-resident-and-citizen-only, one wet Thursday in June.

6. The campaign itself. Which to put it mildly was an utter shambles.

All stupid, all predictable, all Cameron's fault.
Exactly this.

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Trinucleus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:52 pm

bjn wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:42 am
f.ck. Truss has the hots for Minford’s economics. We are totally screwed.
He's on Newsnight. If you cut taxes and put more money into the economy, it reduces inflation :roll:

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:01 pm

My boss used to work in the Treasury and has worked with Patrick Minford before. I mentioned that Liz Truss has a damp patch for him and he said "oh f.cking hell, we're doomed. Minford's insane"
They loved each other and believed they loved mankind, they fought each other and believed they fought the world.

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bob sterman
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Re: Who's next?

Post by bob sterman » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:29 am

This Liz Truss isn't so bad - showing early signs of the passion and drive she would later demonstrate in her cheese import abolition speech...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLOEwXHP8HI

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jimbob
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Re: Who's next?

Post by jimbob » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:26 pm

Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Little waster
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Little waster » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:38 pm

jimbob wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:26 pm
A thread specially for EPD

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1550 ... J4AaUGEK1w
I imagine he's now sitting in a corner of the Mod Penthouse hugging himself and silently weeping out of the sheer, overwhelming joy of it all.
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discovolante
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Re: Who's next?

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:05 pm

We've been trying to coax him out with pieces of Cumberland sausage for the last 7 hours but he won't move.
I'M HEATING STREAKY BACON IN A TROUSER PRESS

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dyqik
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Re: Who's next?

Post by dyqik » Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:19 pm

discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:05 pm
We've been trying to coax him out with pieces of Cumberland sausage for the last 7 hours but he won't move.
Have you tried putting a pastry lid on the Cumberland and calling it a pie?

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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:10 am


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TimW
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Re: Who's next?

Post by TimW » Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:30 am

Just earrings?!

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tenchboy
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Re: Who's next?

Post by tenchboy » Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:27 am

TimW wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:30 am
Just earrings?!
Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:

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shpalman
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Re: Who's next?

Post by shpalman » Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:26 pm

TimW wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:30 am
Just earrings?!
Ha, no, I see why you thought that, but I think the attention was just to draw attention to the particularity of the earrings while leaving the fact that she was otherwise normally dressed implicit!

Similarly I would have expected that Sunak wasn't literally only wearing a suit and shoes but would have also been wearing a shirt and presumably some sort of underwear!

I know, a stupid person might have gotten confused.
molto tricky

WFJ
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Re: Who's next?

Post by WFJ » Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:40 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:10 am
Entirely reasonable response: https://twitter.com/ajrichardsonmp/stat ... AfdUGQzZgA
I don't remember Doris making similar complaints about the cost of Johnson's suits. Did he buy his from Topman?

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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:25 pm

Its likely Sunak’s cheapest suit and shoes.

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TimW
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Re: Who's next?

Post by TimW » Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:02 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:26 pm
I know, a stupid person might have gotten confused.
Taking it slightly seriously for no good reason, it seems a bit off to compare the cost of just her earrings (which needs verifying anyway) with the cost of his suit and shoes, which accounts for most of his attire. He's probably not even going to be wearing earrings, that's how much of a cheapskate he is.

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Trinucleus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Trinucleus » Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:22 pm

Would "Vote Liz, get Nadine" scare some into Rishi's camp?

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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:01 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:59 pm

Exactly this.
Still seems to boil down to “ Tory did not understand how stupid LD and Labour voters could be “

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Tessa K
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Tessa K » Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:17 pm

What would Truss and Sunak's wrestling/boxing nicknames be?

noggins
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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:41 pm

The Punjab Ponce and The Blue Hag.

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Tessa K
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Tessa K » Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:56 pm

noggins wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:41 pm
The Punjab Ponce and The Blue Hag.
Let's avoid race references and sexist language. There's plenty of other ammunition.

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Little waster
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Little waster » Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:12 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:17 pm
What would Truss and Sunak's wrestling/boxing nicknames be?
Surgical Truss vs The Sunak-Attack

I'm picturing Rishi in some sort of mask ensemble while Liz is dressed like an extra from a hospital-based Carry On film from the 70s.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

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Little waster
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Little waster » Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:18 pm

And ... Truss is at it again.

“As a comfortably middle class girl living in leafy suburb who went to a nice school that got me into Oxford, I was so appalled by how much whichever bunch of child-hating Communists were the UK government in the 80s and early 90s held me back that I joined the Conservative Party ... eventually. Now hold my handbag as I cosplay Maggie once again”.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

noggins
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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:50 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:56 pm
noggins wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:41 pm
The Punjab Ponce and The Blue Hag.
Let's avoid race references and sexist language. There's plenty of other ammunition.
Rishi “Dowry” Sunak

Liz “Sketchy” Truss

noggins
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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:02 pm

Aw, i rather liked “The Charmin’ Brahmin”

As a double act, Blinky and Thinky

Millennie Al
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Millennie Al » Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:26 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:22 pm
Would "Vote Liz, get Nadine" scare some into Rishi's camp?
Isn't "Vote Liz, get Liz" scary enough?

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