Who's next?

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TimW
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Re: Who's next?

Post by TimW » Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:22 am

A lot of people are facing "Vote Boris, get Liz", not a popular outcome, bless.

Almost half of Tory voters do not want Boris Johnson to quit

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:11 am

As the delightful Marina Purkiss pointed out*, the Telegraph story is based on a quite hilarious petition that did not restrict itself to only Conservative party members. The party membership number field could be filled in with zero, and this was advised as such on the page.





*(Thought I saw someone I recognised there for a moment, but it must have been just an hallucination)
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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:39 pm

Boris Johnson is being backed by senior Tories to be the next Secretary General of Nato when the high-profile role next becomes free
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/15 ... BmBsgDop9Q

If they seriously think there is any chance of that happening they have lost touch with reality.

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Tessa K
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:47 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:39 pm
Boris Johnson is being backed by senior Tories to be the next Secretary General of Nato when the high-profile role next becomes free
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/15 ... BmBsgDop9Q

If they seriously think there is any chance of that happening they have lost touch with reality.
I just reread Slough House, the Mick Herron book that has a thinly veiled Boris character. In this, once his political career is over he works hard at becoming the power behind the throne, using his money and influence to manipulate politics, the Intelligence Services and the media, with varying but always lucrative degrees of success while running a PR company called Bullingdon Fopp.

temptar
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Re: Who's next?

Post by temptar » Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:25 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:39 pm
Boris Johnson is being backed by senior Tories to be the next Secretary General of Nato when the high-profile role next becomes free
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/15 ... BmBsgDop9Q

If they seriously think there is any chance of that happening they have lost touch with reality.
It has made the news in Belgium. Thanks very much. https://mobile.twitter.com/lalibrebe/st ... 6295269377

noggins
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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:07 pm

quick before banned

https://chng.it/yScX4Rhwbs

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Sciolus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Sciolus » Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:21 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:39 pm
Boris Johnson is being backed by senior Tories to be the next Secretary General of Nato when the high-profile role next becomes free
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/15 ... BmBsgDop9Q

If they seriously think there is any chance of that happening they have lost touch with reality.
Unfortunately, in recent years, reality has lost touch with reality.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:45 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:21 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:39 pm
Boris Johnson is being backed by senior Tories to be the next Secretary General of Nato when the high-profile role next becomes free
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/15 ... BmBsgDop9Q

If they seriously think there is any chance of that happening they have lost touch with reality.
Unfortunately, in recent years, reality has lost touch with reality.
Even so, among the governments that would have to agree to him being Secretary General, Johnson is profoundly distrusted and disliked. They’re not going to vote for him,

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:05 am

In fact, in my 3 years as Transport Secretary, there has not been a single day when unions have not been in dispute with the rail industry by either threatening or taking industrial action
gosh whoever has been running that industry really f.cked up hey
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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:31 am

Just on my own experience, Network Rail tend to start discussions about pay rises and bonuses for managers at the start of their financial year, in April. Agreement tends to come about three or four months later and is paid in July or August, usually.

Discussions with lower grades tend to be in the autumn, again taking several months. So just at one company alone, unions will be discussing matters, and pushing for a better deal, for at least half if not two thirds of the year. Then there's the TOCs.
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Allo V Psycho » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:01 am

Don;t know if this is the best place (maybe a new thread?) but stunning succes for levelling up just announced.

In 2021 (the latest available data), total public spending on the North was £16,223 per person, an increase of 17 per cent on 2019. This is lower than the England wide average of £16,309 per person, an increase of 20 per cent on 2019. London saw the highest public spending per person and the highest increase over the course of the levelling up agenda, at £19,231 per person, an increase of 25 per cent. Indeed, the spending gap between the North and the capital doubled over the period – growing from a difference of £1,513 per person to £3,008 per person between 2019 and 2021. The lowest total per person public spending in England was in Yorkshire and Humber, at £15,540 per person, and the lowest percentage increase was in the North East, which saw a 16 per cent increase.
https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/pre ... -to-change

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Trinucleus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:46 am

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:01 am
Don;t know if this is the best place (maybe a new thread?) but stunning succes for levelling up just announced.

In 2021 (the latest available data), total public spending on the North was £16,223 per person, an increase of 17 per cent on 2019. This is lower than the England wide average of £16,309 per person, an increase of 20 per cent on 2019. London saw the highest public spending per person and the highest increase over the course of the levelling up agenda, at £19,231 per person, an increase of 25 per cent. Indeed, the spending gap between the North and the capital doubled over the period – growing from a difference of £1,513 per person to £3,008 per person between 2019 and 2021. The lowest total per person public spending in England was in Yorkshire and Humber, at £15,540 per person, and the lowest percentage increase was in the North East, which saw a 16 per cent increase.
https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/pre ... -to-change
I guess that will be distorted a bit by furlough with overall more unfurlough-able factory/processing jobs in the north compared to office jobs in the south.

In other levelling up news, South Yorkshire bus services have just been cut by a third

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Tessa K
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Tessa K » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:31 am

Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:46 am
Allo V Psycho wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:01 am
Don;t know if this is the best place (maybe a new thread?) but stunning succes for levelling up just announced.

In 2021 (the latest available data), total public spending on the North was £16,223 per person, an increase of 17 per cent on 2019. This is lower than the England wide average of £16,309 per person, an increase of 20 per cent on 2019. London saw the highest public spending per person and the highest increase over the course of the levelling up agenda, at £19,231 per person, an increase of 25 per cent. Indeed, the spending gap between the North and the capital doubled over the period – growing from a difference of £1,513 per person to £3,008 per person between 2019 and 2021. The lowest total per person public spending in England was in Yorkshire and Humber, at £15,540 per person, and the lowest percentage increase was in the North East, which saw a 16 per cent increase.
https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/pre ... -to-change
I guess that will be distorted a bit by furlough with overall more unfurlough-able factory/processing jobs in the north compared to office jobs in the south.

In other levelling up news, South Yorkshire bus services have just been cut by a third
London bus services are about to be cut, including the route I live on. Arse.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:32 am

Truss states that:
Liz Truss has said she wants to save taxpayers' money by ending national pay deals for civil servants' pay.

The Tory leadership candidate wants to link civil servants' salaries to living standards where they work, meaning similar jobs could have different salaries depending on location.

Ms Truss says the scheme could be rolled out to other public sector areas, saving £8.8bn a year.
Yes, she is just telling reactionary pensioners what they want to hear. But this proposal is another sign that those in power haven't grasped the extent to which the economy has radically changed.

From the 80s through to 2020 politicians didn't need to worry about national level labour shortages due to mass unemployment in the early part of the era, and EU migration in the latter part. Now, in an era of labour shortages the key challenge for the state is to hold onto workers in order to deliver services. Truss should be promising innovative strategies to stop teachers, soldiers or doctors etc leaving and taking up better paid jobs in the private sector (eg building homes earmarked for nurses). At some point voters need to realize that the government will need to increase spending just to retain staff and keep services as they are.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:38 am


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Trinucleus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Trinucleus » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:33 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:32 am
Truss states that:
Liz Truss has said she wants to save taxpayers' money by ending national pay deals for civil servants' pay.

The Tory leadership candidate wants to link civil servants' salaries to living standards where they work, meaning similar jobs could have different salaries depending on location.

Ms Truss says the scheme could be rolled out to other public sector areas, saving £8.8bn a year.
Yes, she is just telling reactionary pensioners what they want to hear. But this proposal is another sign that those in power haven't grasped the extent to which the economy has radically changed.

From the 80s through to 2020 politicians didn't need to worry about national level labour shortages due to mass unemployment in the early part of the era, and EU migration in the latter part. Now, in an era of labour shortages the key challenge for the state is to hold onto workers in order to deliver services. Truss should be promising innovative strategies to stop teachers, soldiers or doctors etc leaving and taking up better paid jobs in the private sector (eg building homes earmarked for nurses). At some point voters need to realize that the government will need to increase spending just to retain staff and keep services as they are.
They do realise that non-conservative supporters can hear what they're saying don't they? Anyone remotely interested in or supporting public services will soon be checking out, as in 1997, which way to vote to get the Tories out

noggins
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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:04 pm

erm. can we have boris back ?

noggins
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Re: Who's next?

Post by noggins » Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:06 pm

liz' mean streets of roundhay shtick makes me think of herbert kornfeld. props to tha' l-dog.

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lpm
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Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:50 pm

Economics is pretty easy. If you're not getting the supply, raise the price you offer. If too many people are demanding your good or service, increase the price you charge.

It's hard to recruit nurses, teachers, graduates etc in The North. Which is where the price offered must be increased. To propose reducing the price is stupider than a really stupid thing.
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Lew Dolby
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Lew Dolby » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:43 pm

if she really wants to save money, she could abolish/ban PPE courses at universities. Products seem to come out with sh.t P, sh.t P and bugger all knowledge of E.
WOULD CUSTOMERS PLEASE REFRAIN FROM SITTING ON THE COUNTER BY THE BACON SLICER - AS WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE BEHIND IN OUR ORDERS.

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Trinucleus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Trinucleus » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:40 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:50 pm
Economics is pretty easy. If you're not getting the supply, raise the price you offer. If too many people are demanding your good or service, increase the price you charge.

It's hard to recruit nurses, teachers, graduates etc in The North. Which is where the price offered must be increased. To propose reducing the price is stupider than a really stupid thing.
And yet increasing the amount of money in circulation [eg by tax cuts] with static supply, apparently doesn't lead to price inflation

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Woodchopper
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:48 am

lpm wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:50 pm
Economics is pretty easy. If you're not getting the supply, raise the price you offer. If too many people are demanding your good or service, increase the price you charge.

It's hard to recruit nurses, teachers, graduates etc in The North. Which is where the price offered must be increased. To propose reducing the price is stupider than a really stupid thing.
That works for an individual job. Increase the pay for teachers until you get all the teachers you need.

But when there is a national labour shortage that doesn't work for government. Unemployment is at the lowest level for about 50 years, and nationally there are more vacancies than there are people who are looking for work (officially at least) for the first time since the data started in 2001.

Of course that doesn't mean that everyone who wants a job can get one, there are differences in geographic location, skills, experience etc.

At a national level it doesn't help to increase pay for teachers if people retrain from being nurses, social workers or police officers. Attracting people in from the private sector also has downsides. Firstly, many key services depend upon private companies (eg freight transport) and government spending ultimately needs the taxpayers in the private sector.

The risk is that increasing pay for individual jobs just increases pay across the board while merely shifting labour shortages from one sector to another.

Is it possible to increase overall supply of labour? To a certain extent it probably is. Higher wages may encourage some people out of retirement or from having withdrawn from the labour market. They may also encourage some younger people to train for roles in demand.

But I doubt those are going to fix the problem.

Prior to Brexit labour shortages weren't a problem as the UK supply of labour also came from the circa half a billion EU population, and it was easy for the UK to outbid employers in Poland or Spain etc.

But now, the supply of labour via immigration is constrained by government regulation. I doubt that for the current government at least its politically feasible to allow as much immigration as is needed.

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Re: Who's next?

Post by dyqik » Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:48 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:48 am

The risk is that increasing pay for individual jobs just increases pay across the board while merely shifting labour shortages from one sector to another.
And if that shifts shortages from public sector service jobs to telemarketers, estate agents, and other private sector jobs, then that's probably a net good.

Apart from the dirty telephones, of course.

;)

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lpm
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Re: Who's next?

Post by lpm » Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:57 pm

Yep. The cost of living crisis - if it's not smothered - should shake people out of b.llsh.t jobs. And lure them into more rewarding jobs that boost self esteem and give a career path.

It's not just coffee servers, my usual example. It's workers in retail, on supermarket tills, in car dealerships, telemarketing and call centres, uber and just eat deliveries, waiters, some HR jobs, PR jobs. It's also automation knocking out loads of jobs.

People can't afford their old lifestyle and will cut down on things, plus chase cheaper shops etc.

There's no real national labour shortage. There's an apparent shortage. But only because we somehow went down the dead-end path into sh.tty zero hour self esteem-destroying jobs.
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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Who's next?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:02 am

Yeah but if you start demanding self esteem for workers we won't have any nurses or teachers left
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