Liz Truss - an unending void of horror and pain

[jimbob]

I agree, but clearly we're into model-breaking territory here

I'm thinking about how the Liberal party went from having a PM to the third party in two electoral cycles

[jimbob]

I agree, but clearly we're into model-breaking territory here

I'm thinking about how the Liberal party went from having a PM to the third party in two electoral cycles

Mind you I have been thinking that since Johnson alienated one of their core constituencies with "f.ck Business"

[monkey]

Survation have done a poll that only gives Labour a 21 point lead - clicky

NEW Westminster Voting Intention. Largest Labour lead (21 points) we've ever recorded.

CON 28% (-5)
LAB 49% (+6)
LD 11% (nc)
SNP 5% (+1)
GRE 1% (-2)
Others 7% (+2)
*Changes in comparison to Survation polling September 5th 2022

Field work was today, rather than a mix of today and yesterday like with the YouGov one.

[tenchboy]

A Masterclass in Not-Answering-The-Question
Just in case any of you have a tricky interview tomorrow.

[jimbob]

This is my Tory MP with a majority of about 500

https://twitter.com/robertlargan/status ... W_8YqfQjZQ

Robert Largan
@robertlargan
This is untenable. You cannot freeze benefits and pensions while cutting taxes for millionaires.

A debt reduction plan needs to be both economically and politically sustainable to be credible.
11:57 PM · Sep 29, 2022
·Twitter for iPhone

[Woodchopper]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Political compass.png (132.98 KiB) Viewed 1332 times

From here: https://www.ft.com/content/d5f1d564-8c0 ... 6c7759f2b8

[Bewildered]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Political compass.png

From here: https://www.ft.com/content/d5f1d564-8c0 ... 6c7759f2b8

I can’t see the article. Not that I disagree with it but is it based on any semi-objective methodology or it’s just an artistic impression?

[Gfamily]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Political compass.png

From here: https://www.ft.com/content/d5f1d564-8c0 ... 6c7759f2b8

I can’t see the article. Not that I disagree with it but is it based on any semi-objective methodology or it’s just an artistic impression?

If you can only see the title to the article, but no text - just the subscription options - it seems to be a reliable thing with ft articles, that if you google the words in the title ( The Tories have become unmoored from the British people ), then the ft article will be the first result - and you can then read the article without the requirement for a subscription.

That's how it is for me anyway
ETA
The footnote to the chart

footnote.jpg (10.34 KiB) Viewed 1303 times

[Bird on a Fire]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Political compass.png

From here: https://www.ft.com/content/d5f1d564-8c0 ... 6c7759f2b8

I can’t see the article. Not that I disagree with it but is it based on any semi-objective methodology or it’s just an artistic impression?

The party positions are from https://www.chesdata.eu/

Voter positions are from https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/

So yeah, pretty objective.

Gotta say I'm surprised at Brexit Party voters being auth-left. While Euroscepticism is fairly common amongst European Communist parties they seem to make strange bedfellows with Farage.

[Little waster]

In other news, my friend who works in an A&E unit says they've just admitted Rishi Sunak.

Apparently he has the worst case of Pseudobulbar Affect she's ever seen.

Unusually this has caused significant ruptures of the abdominal cavity and the complete detachment of his penile appendage!

[IvanV]

Gotta say I'm surprised at Brexit Party voters being auth-left. While Euroscepticism is fairly common amongst European Communist parties they seem to make strange bedfellows with Farage.

I was initially rather surprised by this diagram, especially by the shortage of economically right wing voters. But then it made sense. The real divide in British politics is between trad-auth and lib-prog. But if you left the trad-auth wing of the electorate to the tories, they'd probably win. So Labour and Lib-Dem have to stretch up into the borderlands of trad-auth to get enough votes.

Though I suspect 2-d isn't really enough. What does right wing economically mean? You can be in favour of relatively high taxes and more spending on public services without wanting to nationalise everything. That's a pretty normal reality on much of the continent.

[Bewildered]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Political compass.png

From here: https://www.ft.com/content/d5f1d564-8c0 ... 6c7759f2b8

I can’t see the article. Not that I disagree with it but is it based on any semi-objective methodology or it’s just an artistic impression?

The party positions are from https://www.chesdata.eu/

Voter positions are from https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/

So yeah, pretty objective.

Gotta say I'm surprised at Brexit Party voters being auth-left. While Euroscepticism is fairly common amongst European Communist parties they seem to make strange bedfellows with Farage.

Ok so not an artists impression .

The survey for the parties is the opinions from experts on where the Tories lie on that scale right? So the objective bit is that this is what experts think (up to the soundness of the survey methodology at least) . But it’s still their subjective opinion unless they are all applying some methodology to get their answer before replying . If there are established methodologies for assigning and weighting policies on the spectrum that could be applied automatically then it could be fairly objective, but I am not sure how close to that you can get since the issues are always unique. (also how much you base it on policy vs actual voting or legislation passed?)

For the British public, the caption in the figure says the ft analysis based on that data. So then I think it depends on the details of that analysis doesn’t it?

[Bewildered]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Political compass.png

From here: https://www.ft.com/content/d5f1d564-8c0 ... 6c7759f2b8

I can’t see the article. Not that I disagree with it but is it based on any semi-objective methodology or it’s just an artistic impression?

If you can only see the title to the article, but no text - just the subscription options - it seems to be a reliable thing with ft articles, that if you google the words in the title ( The Tories have become unmoored from the British people ), then the ft article will be the first result - and you can then read the article without the requirement for a subscription.

That's how it is for me anyway
ETA
The footnote to the chart
footnote.jpg

Neat trick, worked for me.

[Millennie Al]

Gotta say I'm surprised at Brexit Party voters being auth-left. While Euroscepticism is fairly common amongst European Communist parties they seem to make strange bedfellows with Farage.

Right wing economic policies involve leaving things to the markets. This well describes freedom of movement of

• People
• Goods
• Capital
• Services

which may be familir to you. Left wing economic policies involve interfering in the markets, which inevitable require reducing these freedoms. This is because a policy which merely involves everyone doing what they already wanted to do is not going to achieve any left-wing goal. While the Brexit slogan of "take back control" might sound like it is giving UK voters more control, in reality what it means is giving more power to those already in authority in the UK - the voters get nothing and will lose out as more power is concentrated in fewer hands.

[Woodchopper]

Gotta say I'm surprised at Brexit Party voters being auth-left. While Euroscepticism is fairly common amongst European Communist parties they seem to make strange bedfellows with Farage.

That shouldn't be a big surprise.

The most high profile argument from Leave was that Brexit would result in a significant increase in public spending. A typical leave voter was working class, from the north of England and had a long history of voting Labour. Those people never stopped being in favour of redistribution and higher public spending.

To the extent that its possible to glean some strategy from Johnson's term, it seems like he recognized this and talked about spending (levelling up) even if he didn't deliver.

[plodder]

Wow, f.cking hell:

https://conservativehome.com/2022/09/30 ... eal-world/

[Little waster]

Wow, f.cking hell:

https://conservativehome.com/2022/09/30 ... eal-world/

Ed Miliband has just photo-bombed a BBC interview with Truss to shout "Chaos! motherf.ckers!" at the camera, before running off down the corridor, maniacally laughing.

[jimbob]

Meanwhile in the real world

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... =operanews

Truss comes out fighting and pledges to take ‘iron grip’ on economy after pound rebounds

[bjn]

My prediction, the conservative party conference is a clusterf.ck, tory MPs rebel, but the climb down is reversing the 45% tax threshold and the banker bonus. The rest of the crazy stands, they get a slight bounce on that, and their client media say all is good now. However the structural changes and the huge debts they’ve taken in regardless will still f.ck us.

Also, this enterprise zones are totally scary.

[Little waster]

Don't worry Max King over at MoneyWeek says it'll be fine and all criticism of the mini-budget is due to group-think and political bias.

https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-econom ... ini-budget

WARNING: Contains group-think and political bias from the outset.

[Little waster]

The BBC want to make it categorically clear that the loss of feed during Truss's conference interview with LK was definitely NOT due to a mob of desperate Tory SPADs attacking the cables with a variety of fire-axes, steak knives and in one case their own teeth, definitely not.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... kuenssberg

[Trinucleus]

Good to hear she's not interested in optics. I think a Tory manifesto based on millionaire tax reductions funded by benefit cuts would be an absolute winner

[bjn]

At least it’s clear a clear message and you know who you are dealing with.

[noggins]

I dont buy the public being leftwing economically.

I think most people want to have their cake and eat it, and if you ask them “do you want public services X Y and Z to be well funded?” they’ll say “Yes” and if you ask them “do you want lower taxes?” they’ll say “Yes”.
And poll leftwingness is a reaction to 12 years of toryism.
Give em 4-8 years of Labour and theyll be frothing at the mouth for free enterprise.

[IvanV]

Right wing economic policies involve leaving things to the markets. This well describes freedom of movement of

• People
• Goods
• Capital
• Services

which may be familir to you. Left wing economic policies involve interfering in the markets, which inevitable require reducing these freedoms. This is because a policy which merely involves everyone doing what they already wanted to do is not going to achieve any left-wing goal. While the Brexit slogan of "take back control" might sound like it is giving UK voters more control, in reality what it means is giving more power to those already in authority in the UK - the voters get nothing and will lose out as more power is concentrated in fewer hands.

That's one aspect of L v R economic policies.

These are economic issues too, and quite different in nature. And also present a spectrum of L to R views which may not be well correlated with L to R views with other economic issues.

• How much redistribution do you do through the tax and benefit system
• How much public service does the state arrange to provide for you

On the market vs non-market matters you mention, I think it's one thing to want natural monopolies to be nationalised, it's a much bigger step to the left (or kleptocracy) to want manufacturing industry, agriculture, competitive service industries, etc to be nationalised.