Is bad to be interested in violence?

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bjn
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Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by bjn » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:35 am

I’m interested in violence, to the point that I actually teach people historical swordplay. Which is literally teaching them how to stab someone to death. I’m also interested in warfare, ancient and modern, I was in my university reserve regiment and so was a trained soldier. I have no problems with any of this, I find violence fascinating on so many levels.

However, I have no interest in actually stabbing someone, I have no desire to harm anyone. I actively avoid images and videos of people being killed in action during the current war in the Ukraine, which I am following fairly closely.

Am I a bad person?

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by Stephanie » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:47 am

I think there is a difference between something akin to a nerdy interest and understanding violence on an abstract level, and then watching videos and images of people being killed.

Most criticism that I can tell is about the latter, but for some reason people are taking it as the whole.

I personally have very little interest in war, it seems senseless to me. Expressing this type of opinion however gets an accusation of naivety, or supporting whatever, or not wanting to look at the reality, and I have very little interest in engaging with that type of aggression tbqh.
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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:50 am

Stephanie wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:47 am
I think there is a difference between something akin to a nerdy interest and understanding violence on an abstract level, and then watching videos and images of people being killed.

Most criticism that I can tell is about the latter, but for some reason people are taking it as the whole.

I personally have very little interest in war, it seems senseless to me. Expressing this type of opinion however gets an accusation of naivety, or supporting whatever, or not wanting to look at the reality, and I have very little interest in engaging with that type of aggression tbqh.
There's nothing wrong with thinking war's senseless. It is.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by Stephanie » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:02 am

It got very aggressive on twitter at one point (I think I muted some stuff in the end). I have Russian and Ukrainian mutuals, so I can usually get a sense of what's happening.
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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by plodder » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:16 am

Violence is absolutely fascinating and so it's entirely normal to be interested in it, if only to learn how to avoid it.

What is less healthy is how and why people get excited by it. I'd suggest rephrasing the question along these lines. There are all sorts of motivations to be excited by violence, probably born mainly out of a sense of frustration and impotence.

For people interested in swordplay it's likely to be not so much about violence btw, rather it's the other thrusting thing that's likely the root cause of interest. Which is kinda related to the frustration thing I guess (not that all sword enthusiasts are impotent - but there's a pretty striking metaphor, right? And being motivated by something relating to sex is entirely normal)

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by bjn » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:26 am

Very poor trolling there. About a quarter of my club are women, do they have penis envy?

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:31 am

plodder wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:16 am
Violence is absolutely fascinating and so it's entirely normal to be interested in it, if only to learn how to avoid it.

What is less healthy is how and why people get excited by it. I'd suggest rephrasing the question along these lines. There are all sorts of motivations to be excited by violence, probably born mainly out of a sense of frustration and impotence.

For people interested in swordplay it's likely to be not so much about violence btw, rather it's the other thrusting thing that's likely the root cause of interest. Which is kinda related to the frustration thing I guess (not that all sword enthusiasts are impotent - but there's a pretty striking metaphor, right? And being motivated by something relating to sex is entirely normal)
Your insistence on conflating knowing about violence with sexual/masturbatory interest is exceedingly offensive and I am grateful that the mods keep moving it to the pit where it belongs. It does appear to be quite unhealthy and I suggest a cold shower, and that you think about what you accuse people of before you pronounce nonsense in the future.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by IvanV » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:00 am

It is important that some people take an interest in violence.

Violence is ultimately the method used by liberal states enforce the rule of law. There doesn't seem to be a practical alternative that we know of. Without it, there would be a lot more violence.

If a state's enforcement through violence is unavailable, then law and order quickly break down. Even in what we might consider a civilised country, this can happen very quickly. The canonical example is the 1969 Montreal police strike. This was only a 24-hour strike, but extensive riot and looting broke out, now referred to as the Murray Hill riot.

We'd like to believe that it isn't true.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by plodder » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:35 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:31 am

Your insistence on conflating knowing about violence with sexual/masturbatory interest is exceedingly offensive and I am grateful that the mods keep moving it to the pit where it belongs. It does appear to be quite unhealthy and I suggest a cold shower, and that you think about what you accuse people of before you pronounce nonsense in the future.
EAC once again you've genuinely misread what I'm saying in order to take the maximum offence possible, and once again you've responded in a completely puerile way. I made the point that the question needs to be about "excited by violence" rather than "interested in", for very dull reasons. I'm not sure where you got "knowing about" from.

Ironically you are one of those poor souls who gets very excited by all sorts of things that have some sort of animal basis, including having a laser focus on opportunities to chest beat, demonstrate prowess, scare off a rival, humiliate others, act the peacock, make loud scary noises etc. I'm sure you also go red in the face. We all do this to some extent but you're at the sharp end.

These animal behaviours are absolutely linked to sex, especially insecurities or frustrations around sex. It's why this behaviour is described as adolescent and prurient. It's also true why combat sports (and sport in general) is so popular. The physical prowess in sport (or career or whatever) is ultimately just a modern proxy for "shaggable". Too many claims of prowess without actually being able to demonstrate it is where things go wrong. You should dwell on that when you're chest beating about things that you're wrong about.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by plodder » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:42 am

bjn wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:26 am
Very poor trolling there. About a quarter of my club are women, do they have penis envy?
Penis envy is something very different, I'm sure you know that. Sport (and violence in general) is absolutely related to finding (and keeping) a mate. Sword fighting definitely has some interesting subtexts going on in that regard.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by noggins » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:47 am

Yeah its bad.

But why be good?

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:13 pm

Plodder, your accusations are as inaccurate as they are tiresome and pathetic. Just f.ck off.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by plodder » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:21 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:13 pm
Plodder, your accusations are as inaccurate as they are tiresome and pathetic. Just f.ck off.
Take it to the pit EAC. You did misread my post and there's nothing inaccurate about any of it. You are often in thrall to your base hormonal responses.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by dyqik » Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:37 pm

plodder wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:42 am
bjn wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:26 am
Very poor trolling there. About a quarter of my club are women, do they have penis envy?
Penis envy is something very different, I'm sure you know that. Sport (and violence in general) is absolutely related to finding (and keeping) a mate. Sword fighting definitely has some interesting subtexts going on in that regard.
Another thing used for that is virtue signalling by aggressively calling out people that you think are doing something distasteful.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by plodder » Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:55 pm

Sure, as is asserting yourself in a conversation. We all do it all the time.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by discovolante » Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:50 pm

I think it's something of a privilege (yeah that word, but I mean it properly) not to have to worry about knowing much about different types of weapons, ammunition etc. and I think it's important to recognise that. Not in a performative social media sense, and not necessarily publicly at all, but just to recognise it in the appropriate context. And possibly realise that it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that your circumstances could change at some point.

But I do also think it's one of those areas where interest/knowledge can drift into being a bit tasteless. There are other areas where this can happen too of course. And I think it's probably unsurprising that people sometimes respond badly to it.

This fence is quite pointy I know but I feel like this is one of those situations where it helps to take a step back now and then.
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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by lpm » Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:17 pm

Plodder's obsession with a sexual motive for being interested in violence reveals a lot about himself and nothing about others.

First up, have to differentiate between the sexes. I highly doubt women who read war history or play combatative sports or study violence have any sexual excitement. Plodder is assuming male default in his theorising.

Secondly, a game of chess is a direct mimic of personal combat, two sides guiding proxy armies. Notwithstanding a separate thread, chess is so remote from sexual competition like "finding and keeping a mate" as to make it nonsense. Nerds in the chess club excited about a masterful Kasperov game aren't noted for their sexual desirability. Chess is a mental war challenge, and so are many strategy based games.

Thirdly, the intellectual world is highly rewarding in itself for many of us. A fascination of how a novel coronavirus kills humans is not sexual. Studying in detail the paints used by Spanish impressionist artists is not sexual. Puzzle games are not sexual. So it seems odd to jump to the conclusion that there is sexual excitement in studying the detail of weaponry, categorising success ratios of the MP-44 compared to the MP-42 and puzzling over maps in an attempt to solve questions about strategy.

Finally, attitudes to death vary greatly. Some people want to work as undertakers, others have a horror of dead bodies. I wouldn't be able to do an autopsy of a Covid victim. Someone else might not be able to bear seeing a plane crashing with its crew aboard. Another person might enjoy the intellectual challenge of deducing why the plane crashed. I don't see that there's any inherent right or wrong in attitudes to death and dead bodies.
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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by Opti » Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:30 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Plodder's obsession with a sexual motive for being interested in violence reveals a lot about himself and nothing about others.

^ ^ ^
This.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by plodder » Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:19 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:17 pm
Plodder's obsession with a sexual motive for being interested in violence reveals a lot about himself and nothing about others <snip>
Excited by, not interested in. C'mon lpm, I know you can read.

Some chess players (like Nigel Short) do get excited by the mastery involved over the board and it's quite hard to ignore what are obviously quite pervy undertones when they're interviewed about it.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by Stephanie » Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:35 pm

discovolante wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:50 pm
I think it's something of a privilege (yeah that word, but I mean it properly) not to have to worry about knowing much about different types of weapons, ammunition etc. and I think it's important to recognise that. Not in a performative social media sense, and not necessarily publicly at all, but just to recognise it in the appropriate context. And possibly realise that it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that your circumstances could change at some point.
I mean yes and no. My grandmother doesn't know the exact details of whatever blew her eye out during WWII, and I don't think my great gran did either, but it obviously had an effect.
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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by Martin Y » Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:39 pm

Maybe all this sh.t could have been avoided if the original point had just been to declare that a particular post was distasteful instead of diagnosing the poster's interest in the destruction of stockpiled Russian materiel as a quasi-sexual thrill at the likely deaths of persons unknown.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:43 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:39 pm
Maybe all this sh.t could have been avoided if the original point had just been to declare that a particular post was distasteful instead of diagnosing the poster's interest in the destruction of stockpiled Russian materiel as a quasi-sexual thrill at the likely deaths of persons unknown.
I think so. The problem with posting provocatively is that it provokes people, and the provocation can end up distracting from whatever point the poster provocateur was trying to make.

Plus I guess I'm not really sold on the idea it's a sex thing.
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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:48 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:43 pm
Plus I guess I'm not really sold on the idea it's a sex thing.
That's because it abslutely isn't. Plodder's been told it's offensive before. He's had a whole host of posts removed from the threads to do with the war for that sort of offensive trolling. I agree with Martin Y's point, but I'm pretty certain Plodder was trying to start trouble.

And seriously, the accusation is grotesquely offensive. It should not be left on this thread, it should be removed.

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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:37 pm

Some people literally study sex, and not because they want to spend all their time w.nking.

It's possible to be interested in something and it not be down to a fetish.
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Re: Is bad to be interested in violence?

Post by discovolante » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:20 pm

Stephanie wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:35 pm
discovolante wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:50 pm
I think it's something of a privilege (yeah that word, but I mean it properly) not to have to worry about knowing much about different types of weapons, ammunition etc. and I think it's important to recognise that. Not in a performative social media sense, and not necessarily publicly at all, but just to recognise it in the appropriate context. And possibly realise that it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that your circumstances could change at some point.
I mean yes and no. My grandmother doesn't know the exact details of whatever blew her eye out during WWII, and I don't think my great gran did either, but it obviously had an effect.
Yeah true. I think I was thinking of more specifically joining an army when invaded (which won't be a huge number of people to be fair in the grand scheme of things) and possibly the fact that we do have more access to info these days. I'm guessing if you are able to know who's stocking up on chemical weapons and who's getting bombs (very roughly, haha) you might want to know. But it's not something you're likely to spend time researching otherwise unless you're already interested.
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