Nordstream: Pipe Down

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Woodchopper
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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:53 pm

Massive leak in the Nordstream 1 & 2 pipelines in Danish waters.

See film here of the surface disturbance: https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/ ... nhd3NGm0QA

Could well be an accident but not impossible that its done by Russia (to try to scare Germany etc).

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Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by lpm » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:30 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:53 pm
Massive leak in the Nordstream 1 & 2 pipelines in Danish waters.

See film here of the surface disturbance: https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/ ... nhd3NGm0QA

Could well be an accident but not impossible that its done by Russia (to try to scare Germany etc).
I have questions:

1) How?

2) Who?

3) What's the scale of the methane release relative to all the other climate-f.cking methane releases done by our moron species?

4) When's the movie out?
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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by dyqik » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:31 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:53 pm
Massive leak in the Nordstream 1 & 2 pipelines in Danish waters.

See film here of the surface disturbance: https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/ ... nhd3NGm0QA

Could well be an accident but not impossible that its done by Russia (to try to scare Germany etc).
Two leaks 75m underwater, 6km apart.

My immediate uninformed guess is that it's a Russian attempt at a false flag operation.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by lpm » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:33 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:31 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:53 pm
Massive leak in the Nordstream 1 & 2 pipelines in Danish waters.

See film here of the surface disturbance: https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/ ... nhd3NGm0QA

Could well be an accident but not impossible that its done by Russia (to try to scare Germany etc).
Two leaks 75m underwater, 6km apart.

My immediate uninformed guess is that it's a Russian attempt at a false flag operation.
Someone said it was 3 leaks?

Needs a submarine to place mines? Which would rule out Ukraine and environmental terrorists. And leaves only Russia as a candidate.
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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by dyqik » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:34 pm

Accident is technically possible, e.g. if a large ship was dragging an anchor across both pipelines. Three separate accidents (there are three leaks in two pipelines, according to twitter) are vanishingly unlikely.

Russian false flag attempt seems like the most likely. The climate change implications probably rules out the current US admin, and Western EU and UK are too vulnerable to the cost of energy to carry it out.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:38 pm

Russia getting increasingly desperate methinks.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by lpm » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:40 pm

Looks like there's seismology measurements. Maybe Russian tourists were visiting when things exploded by themselves by accident.
Last edited by lpm on Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by TopBadger » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:41 pm

Could be there own trying to oust Putin? Kill a source of revenue for him?
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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Grumble » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:44 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:40 pm
Looks like there's seismology measurements. Maybe Russian tourists were visiting when things exploded by themselves by accident.
We were only visiting the world famous trench
A bit churlish

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:50 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:31 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:53 pm
Massive leak in the Nordstream 1 & 2 pipelines in Danish waters.

See film here of the surface disturbance: https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/ ... nhd3NGm0QA

Could well be an accident but not impossible that its done by Russia (to try to scare Germany etc).
Two leaks 75m underwater, 6km apart.

My immediate uninformed guess is that it's a Russian attempt at a false flag operation.
I was thinking "nice subsea internet cable you have here, shame if anything were to happen to it"
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:59 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:33 pm
dyqik wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:31 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:53 pm
Massive leak in the Nordstream 1 & 2 pipelines in Danish waters.

See film here of the surface disturbance: https://twitter.com/forsvaretdk/status/ ... nhd3NGm0QA

Could well be an accident but not impossible that its done by Russia (to try to scare Germany etc).
Two leaks 75m underwater, 6km apart.

My immediate uninformed guess is that it's a Russian attempt at a false flag operation.
Someone said it was 3 leaks?

Needs a submarine to place mines? Which would rule out Ukraine and environmental terrorists. And leaves only Russia as a candidate.
On reflection catastrophic failure is probably a better term than leaks.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:02 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:34 pm
Accident is technically possible, e.g. if a large ship was dragging an anchor across both pipelines. Three separate accidents (there are three leaks in two pipelines, according to twitter) are vanishingly unlikely.

Russian false flag attempt seems like the most likely. The climate change implications probably rules out the current US admin, and Western EU and UK are too vulnerable to the cost of energy to carry it out.
As an alternative to a false flag, if it was Russia (and that is a big if) then the message would be a threat against critical infrastructure: "See those undersea pipelines and cables you've got there, shame if anything would happen to them."

And its a realistic threat. Life will get harder if the gas pipelines, power cables and telecommunications cables all suffer catastrophic failure.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:04 pm

Just seen jimbob's post in the other thread. Great minds and all that.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:10 pm

Report that Swedish seismological stations registered two explosions:
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/svt- ... ord-stream
(In Swedish)

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Grumble » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:16 pm

If it’s been done by submarine then it’s either got mechanical arms to allow handling of charges or an airlock to allow a diver in and out. There was an oligarch yacht seized by Norway or Denmark that had a deployable submarine, I’m guessing it’s not the only such ship. I doubt it’s a nuclear powered submarine, it’s going to be more like ones used by marine scientists. What the betting the ship it deploys from looks like a trawler?
A bit churlish

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by headshot » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:29 pm

If it's Russia, would this count as a direct attack on a NATO member?

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Grumble » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:32 pm

headshot wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:29 pm
If it's Russia, would this count as a direct attack on a NATO member?
Was it in territorial waters?
A bit churlish

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:42 pm

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by dyqik » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:57 pm

Grumble wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:16 pm
If it’s been done by submarine then it’s either got mechanical arms to allow handling of charges or an airlock to allow a diver in and out. There was an oligarch yacht seized by Norway or Denmark that had a deployable submarine, I’m guessing it’s not the only such ship. I doubt it’s a nuclear powered submarine, it’s going to be more like ones used by marine scientists. What the betting the ship it deploys from looks like a trawler?
75m depth seems plausible for special-ops divers in a regular diesel or nuclear submarine. Submarines typically have airlocks to allow for escape if the submarine is stuck on the bottom at reasonable depths, and you can potentially use torpedo or missile tubes for the same thing.

Laying bottom mines can also be done by many vessels.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by IvanV » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:05 pm

Nord Stream 2 is not in operation. So gas is not flowing through it.

I suppose it has some level of gas pressure in it, in the sense that it isn't full of water. It isn't abandoned, there is still some hope of using it. They can probably keep it topped up as necessary. But you wouldn't normally expect much gas leaking from a leak in a non-operational pipeline.

But at the moment, the sanctions on Russia, and operational constraints, mean that it is having to flare off large amounts of excess gas. So it might entertain it to pump more gas than it really needs to down the Nord Stream 2 to escape from the leaks.

The leak is said to be near Bornholm, an island of Denmark. The pipeline does enter Danish water for some distance near Bornholm. It is the only section that leaves international water from leaving Russian water to entering German water. I can imagine the Danes might find themselves felling compelled to pump concrete in to stop the leaks.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Grumble » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:06 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:57 pm
Grumble wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:16 pm
If it’s been done by submarine then it’s either got mechanical arms to allow handling of charges or an airlock to allow a diver in and out. There was an oligarch yacht seized by Norway or Denmark that had a deployable submarine, I’m guessing it’s not the only such ship. I doubt it’s a nuclear powered submarine, it’s going to be more like ones used by marine scientists. What the betting the ship it deploys from looks like a trawler?
75m depth seems plausible for special-ops divers in a regular diesel or nuclear submarine. Submarines typically have airlocks to allow for escape if the submarine is stuck on the bottom at reasonable depths, and you can potentially use torpedo or missile tubes for the same thing.

Laying bottom mines can also be done by many vessels.
75m depth doesn’t seem deep enough for a nuclear sub to operate surreptitiously to me. If it’s a question of dropping a mine on a delayed fuse near enough then it can probably be done by almost any vessel, depending on how near is near enough.
A bit churlish

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by TimW » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:13 pm

Could this coincidence be anything to do with it?
Leaders from Poland, Norway and Denmark have attended a ceremony to mark the opening of the new Baltic Pipe, a key stage in the drive to wean Poland and Europe off Russian gas.

The pipeline will transport natural gas from the Norwegian shelf via Denmark and through the Baltic Sea to Poland. It is the centrepiece of a Polish strategy to diversify away from Russia that began years before Moscow’s February invasion of Ukraine triggered a global energy crisis.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/27/bal ... -on-russia
I wonder whether it also has been damaged, or will be, or is supposed to be under threat.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by monkey » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:25 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:41 pm
Could be there own trying to oust Putin? Kill a source of revenue for him?
It was not being used at the time. Gas supplies from it were cut off already, so no change in revenue in the short term.

My speculation is preparation for a withdrawal from Ukraine, it means that the pipeline won't be turned on again in the near future, which I assume would happen if the Russians did leave, even if not straight away. Kind of a "f.ck you, you're going to pay for supplying the weapons that thwarted me" thing. I'm probabbly being too optimistic though.

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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Gfamily » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:27 pm

TimW wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:13 pm
Could this coincidence be anything to do with it?
Leaders from Poland, Norway and Denmark have attended a ceremony to mark the opening of the new Baltic Pipe, a key stage in the drive to wean Poland and Europe off Russian gas.

The pipeline will transport natural gas from the Norwegian shelf via Denmark and through the Baltic Sea to Poland. It is the centrepiece of a Polish strategy to diversify away from Russia that began years before Moscow’s February invasion of Ukraine triggered a global energy crisis.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/27/bal ... -on-russia
I wonder whether it also has been damaged, or will be, or is supposed to be under threat.
Obvs, it's the Norwegians/Poles that have blown up the Nordstreams so they can corner the market in European Gas
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Re: Nordstream: Pipe Down

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:44 pm

Thread by someone who know their stuff suggests that if it was a Russian attack it could have been carried out by robotic submarines. If so they would have needed a ship nearby.
https://twitter.com/covertshores/status ... s-xF5beEVQ

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