Scrutable

Track all the travails of our most recent prime minister here. Will he solve the current financial crisis? How many people will he kill in the process? Will he create a new crisis for fun? Will Boris Johnson turn into Secretary of State for Heckling?

Stay tuned to find out

There was certainly a perception that he was soft on Russia, and less supportive of Ukraine, however this was while Johnson was trying to get rid of him as a rival, so it could be b.llsh.t.

But if he wants to prove it is b.llsh.t, I'd recommending sending those Challenger 2s that aren't slated for upgrading, or perhaps a squadron's worth of Typhoons.

EACLucifer wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:19 am

But if he wants to prove it is b.llsh.t, I'd recommending sending those Challenger 2s that aren't slated for upgrading, or perhaps a squadron's worth of Typhoons.

Early in the war, someone (Scholz, I think, or his spox maybe) suggested that there was a pan-NATO agreement not to send Western MBTs. The subsequent failure of Leopards, Leclercs, Abrams, Challengers, and Stridvagns to appear suggests strongly to me that this was not, as was widely claimed at the time, a pathetic excuse by the man that everyone loves to beat up on over Ukraine weapons supplies, but that it was in fact an accurate statement of policy. Pro-Ukraine people go on about this all the time (cf the "Free the Leopards" campaign on Twitter) but it simply isn't going to happen. Or rather, if it did, you'd see more than one country moving in that direction.

It seems to me that NATO has decided that these assets are too valuable to risk (in terms of loss or falling into enemy hands), and that Ukraine will probably win anyway with the Soviet/Russian tanks that they have. That victory might well be quicker with 50 Challengers or 200 Abrams, but the extra Ukrainian lives that will be lost seem to have been discounted as part of this calculation, whatever we might like to happen.

In any case I very much doubt that Ben Wallace has been recommending sending Challengers and Johnson or Truss were applying some kind of local veto.

(Apologies if this turns the Rishi thread into another Ukraine thread.)

He will be the youngest PM since the 18th Century (youngest ever was Pitt the Younger, in a case of nominative determinism).

Sunak is not the first non-Christian. Lloyd George was a non-believer, Chamberlain and Attlee described themselves as agnostics, and Callaghan was an atheist.

Is not the first PM with Indian heritage - the Earl of Liverpool was 1/16th Indian.

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Liz Truss was the shortest PM, equal with Spencer Perceval at 5'3. Lord John Russell and Thatcher were 5'5. Sunak will join several at 5'6, including Churchill and May.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Since John Major, he of the two O levels.

I have to admit I slightly wanted Michael Howard to win in 2005, if only to have a PM who went to Cambridge. (Obviously I then wanted the entire Cabinet to be implicated in a giant scandal after a week and have to resign.)

Someone suggested on Twitter that he should make Boris the special envoy for - and of course in - Ukraine

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:33 am

EACLucifer wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:19 am

But if he wants to prove it is b.llsh.t, I'd recommending sending those Challenger 2s that aren't slated for upgrading, or perhaps a squadron's worth of Typhoons.

Early in the war, someone (Scholz, I think, or his spox maybe) suggested that there was a pan-NATO agreement not to send Western MBTs.

That's why Sunak should send Challengers - by going a step beyond others, he would prove he isn't soft on Russia. In the meantime, everyone should hassle him as much as possible on the issue.

In practical terms, Challengers wouldn't be the best option, as there's no way to standardise on them, a maximum of fifty to a hundred or so available, and they use different ammunition to basically everything else. On the other hand, there isn't much of a technology concern - they are getting on a bit, quite frankly, though they have superb armour and a very accurate gun that would serve them well vs Russian MBTs.

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:44 am

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Since John Major, he of the two O levels.

I have to admit I slightly wanted Michael Howard to win in 2005, if only to have a PM who went to Cambridge. (Obviously I then wanted the entire Cabinet to be implicated in a giant scandal after a week and have to resign.)

Since Gordon Brown, he of the Edinburgh MA and PhD.

If Starmer wins, he'll be the first Leeds grad to win.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

He will be the youngest PM since the 18th Century (youngest ever was Pitt the Younger, in a case of nominative determinism).

Sunak is not the first non-Christian. Lloyd George was a non-believer, Chamberlain and Attlee described themselves as agnostics, and Callaghan was an atheist.

Is not the first PM with Indian heritage - the Earl of Liverpool was 1/16th Indian.

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Liz Truss was the shortest PM, equal with Spencer Perceval at 5'3. Lord John Russell and Thatcher were 5'5. Sunak will join several at 5'6, including Churchill and May.

Disraeli was ethnically and religiously Jewish (he converted).

TBF he converted at 12, he was a christian for a long time before becoming PM

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:14 pm

TBF he converted at 12, he was a christian for a long time before becoming PM

Following a quarrel in 1813 with the synagogue of Bevis Marks, his father renounced Judaism and had the four children baptised into the Church of England in July and August 1817.

More a hissy fit by his dad than a road to Damascus.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

He will be the youngest PM since the 18th Century (youngest ever was Pitt the Younger, in a case of nominative determinism).

Sunak is not the first non-Christian. Lloyd George was a non-believer, Chamberlain and Attlee described themselves as agnostics, and Callaghan was an atheist.

Is not the first PM with Indian heritage - the Earl of Liverpool was 1/16th Indian.

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Liz Truss was the shortest PM, equal with Spencer Perceval at 5'3. Lord John Russell and Thatcher were 5'5. Sunak will join several at 5'6, including Churchill and May.

Twitter tells me that Sunak is the first Prime Minister to represent a constituency in Yorkshire.

In his speech Sunak was highly critical of the state of the economy. Implicitly damning whoever was chancellor for the last 2 years.

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:28 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

He will be the youngest PM since the 18th Century (youngest ever was Pitt the Younger, in a case of nominative determinism).

Sunak is not the first non-Christian. Lloyd George was a non-believer, Chamberlain and Attlee described themselves as agnostics, and Callaghan was an atheist.

Is not the first PM with Indian heritage - the Earl of Liverpool was 1/16th Indian.

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Liz Truss was the shortest PM, equal with Spencer Perceval at 5'3. Lord John Russell and Thatcher were 5'5. Sunak will join several at 5'6, including Churchill and May.

Twitter tells me that Sunak is the first Prime Minister to represent a constituency in Yorkshire.

Looked through the list on Wikipedia and it seems to be correct.

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:44 am

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Since John Major, he of the two O levels.

I have to admit I slightly wanted Michael Howard to win in 2005, if only to have a PM who went to Cambridge. (Obviously I then wanted the entire Cabinet to be implicated in a giant scandal after a week and have to resign.)

OH! DID YOU GO TO CAMBRIDGE HOW IMPRESSIVE

plodder wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:36 pm

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:44 am

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Since John Major, he of the two O levels.

I have to admit I slightly wanted Michael Howard to win in 2005, if only to have a PM who went to Cambridge. (Obviously I then wanted the entire Cabinet to be implicated in a giant scandal after a week and have to resign.)

OH! DID YOU GO TO CAMBRIDGE HOW IMPRESSIVE

lmao

Assuming it's tomorrow, he'll become PM on a Tuesday, which is the most common day to become PM.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:07 pm

Assuming it's tomorrow, he'll become PM on a Tuesday, which is the most common day to become PM.

Is King Charles in Buckingham Palace today? Or will he have to take an eco friendly plane ride to get back?

He was in Sandringham, apparently he's carting it over to Bucky P this evening, awaiting the tag team switch

Actually, looking at the weekdays of becoming PM, you'd expect Friday to be a pretty common day, seeing as General Elections are typically on Thursdays. Which it is, but only third most common after Tuesday and Wednesday. The last PM to become so on a Friday was Blair. Brown, May and Johnson all got the job on a Wednesday, Cameron, Truss and (presumably) Sunak on a Tuesday. Before Cameron, there hadn't been a Tuesday anointing since Baldwin's second go at the job.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:40 am

He will be the youngest PM since the 18th Century (youngest ever was Pitt the Younger, in a case of nominative determinism).

Sunak is not the first non-Christian. Lloyd George was a non-believer, Chamberlain and Attlee described themselves as agnostics, and Callaghan was an atheist.

Is not the first PM with Indian heritage - the Earl of Liverpool was 1/16th Indian.

First PM to have been to Oxford since - no wait, they all go to f.cking Oxford.

Liz Truss was the shortest PM, equal with Spencer Perceval at 5'3. Lord John Russell and Thatcher were 5'5. Sunak will join several at 5'6, including Churchill and May.

Shouldn’t it have been Pitt The Youngest?

First billionaire PM as well I expect?

First to have been fined by police for breaking rules he helped write?

Still, hopefully the last Tory PM of the UK.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:38 pm

Still, hopefully the last Tory PM of the UK.

Although it is still a coin toss whether that is because the PM falls or the Union fails.

Little waster wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:42 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:38 pm

Still, hopefully the last Tory PM of the UK.

Although it is still a coin toss whether that is because the PM falls or the Union fails.

Yeah, I phrased it like that to hedge my bets

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:38 pm

First billionaire PM as well I expect?

Possibly richest ever PM. Hard to compare across eras.

Robert Walpole was probably the richest. Inherited a vast estate - and then invested a fortune in the South Sea Bubble at the start and sold at the peak. Built a Norfolk palace.

Earl of Derby was also as rich as f.ck. Inherited most of Lancashire and vast lands elsewhere. Oddly enough the family didn't own so much as an acre in Derbyshire.