Scrutable

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:50 am**

headshot wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:27 am
They’ve got 12-14 months left…max.

They’re going to try anything to try to win votes.

This is just culture war desperation.

c.nts.

The Tory rhetoric so far hasn't worked. Labour appear to have a slight lead on which party the public thinks have the best policies on immigration and asylum. I can't see this changing things.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-are ... atives-are

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:56 am**

headshot wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:27 am
They’ve got 12-14 months left…max.

They’re going to try anything to try to win votes.

This is just culture war desperation.

c.nts.

Yup.

The thing is, I'm not sure it's going to help them. It might partially placate some of the headbangers in his party, but it's 3 years since Brexit was done, and his party was in charge all that time.

I guess that it won't stop them losing support to the Reform party (after all they haven't had a chance to fix this massive* issue), but it will make a lot of unthinking habitual Tories unhappy. I doubt many will go to Labour, but they might not bother supporting the Tories, or even go to the Lib Dems.

*45000 people entering a country with a population of 67 million, apparently

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:57 am**

jimbob wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:21 am
Someone has pointed out that if you are kidnapped and brought to the UK, Sunak is explicitly saying that you won't have the UK modern slavery protection.

https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1 ... 47072?s=20

Rishi Sunak
@RishiSunak

United Kingdom government official
If you come to the UK illegally:

You can’t claim asylum

You can’t benefit from our modern slavery protections

You can’t make spurious human rights claims

You can’t stay

He's a c.nt. But there may not be time for it to pass through parliament before the next election. If so this is all theater.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:07 am**

jimbob wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:21 am
Someone has pointed out that if you are kidnapped and brought to the UK, Sunak is explicitly saying that you won't have the UK modern slavery protection.

You can now read the Bill rather than rely on what someone on Twitter is saying about it.

So S21ff is about disapplying modern slavery protections. It does provide some limited exceptions - see S21(3), etc. But they have made those exceptions about as mean as possible.

I thought it was very funny when Braverman said that they will, as ever, have the utmost respect for international law. And that the cause of the slight delay in publishing the bill was that the finest legal minds were still working on it.

Clearly this is playing to a particular audience. They tried this before and it didn't work. Doesn't say much for the quality of the legal minds who worked on the previous version. Who have they found who is so much more clever to devise a version that will work?

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:13 am**

Woodchopper wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:50 am

headshot wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:27 am
They’ve got 12-14 months left…max.

They’re going to try anything to try to win votes.

This is just culture war desperation.

c.nts.
The Tory rhetoric so far hasn't worked. Labour appear to have a slight lead on which party the public thinks have the best policies on immigration and asylum. I can't see this changing things.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-are ... atives-are

Hey, I didn’t say it was good politics. They’re f.cking useless, and this is the only idea they have left.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:22 am**

Woodchopper wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:50 am

headshot wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:27 am
They’ve got 12-14 months left…max.

They’re going to try anything to try to win votes.

This is just culture war desperation.

c.nts.
The Tory rhetoric so far hasn't worked. Labour appear to have a slight lead on which party the public thinks have the best policies on immigration and asylum. I can't see this changing things.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-are ... atives-are

If that's the case, then I suspect that trying to push through a performatively-cruel and unworkable, treaty-breaking act might actually reverse some of the recent gains under Sunak.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:27 pm**

Anyone else suspect they are trying to pass a law that the EHRC won't allow so they can make watering down the Human Rights Act an election potato? I That would give the Tories something that could be used to talk about things like "sovereignty" and "independence", targeting Brexit voters, and I don't think it's something that even Starmer's Labour would sit on the fence with.

Plus there's many a Tory who've wanted to do that ever since we had a human rights act, so it'll keep that wing of the party happy.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:52 pm**

monkey wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:27 pm
Anyone else suspect they are trying to pass a law that the EHRC won't allow so they can make watering down the Human Rights Act an election potato? I That would give the Tories something that could be used to talk about things like "sovereignty" and "independence", targeting Brexit voters, and I don't think it's something that even Starmer's Labour would sit on the fence with.

Plus there's many a Tory who've wanted to do that ever since we had a human rights act, so it'll keep that wing of the party happy.

Yes.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:12 pm**

Sunak has always been on the right of the Conservative party, if a somewhat different nuance of right from Johnson or Truss. Let not his avoidance of their visible flaws, and apparent reasonableness and careful hand on the tiller, distract us from the fact that social equity forms no genuine part of his aims.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:27 pm**

IvanV wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:12 pm
Sunak has always been on the right of the Conservative party, if a somewhat different nuance of right from Johnson or Truss. Let not his avoidance of their visible flaws, and apparent reasonableness and careful hand on the tiller, distract us from the fact that social equity forms no genuine part of his aims.

Indeed not, but due to lack of knowledge about him, he had been perceived as less deranged than his two predecessors.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:27 pm**

Woodchopper wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:50 am

headshot wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:27 am
They’ve got 12-14 months left…max.

They’re going to try anything to try to win votes.

This is just culture war desperation.

c.nts.
The Tory rhetoric so far hasn't worked. Labour appear to have a slight lead on which party the public thinks have the best policies on immigration and asylum. I can't see this changing things.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-are ... atives-are

I've just been trying to find out what Labour's polices on immigration are. As far as I can tell it's "We agree with the principle, but we will do it in a nicer way." So no, I don't see that changing much either.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:52 pm**

jimbob wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:27 pm

IvanV wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:12 pm
Sunak has always been on the right of the Conservative party, if a somewhat different nuance of right from Johnson or Truss. Let not his avoidance of their visible flaws, and apparent reasonableness and careful hand on the tiller, distract us from the fact that social equity forms no genuine part of his aims.
Indeed not, but due to lack of knowledge about him, he had been perceived as less deranged than his two predecessors.

I don't think Johnson is deranged. His methods were quite effective - from his own perspective - for several years. But eventually enough people saw through him, and were unwilling to tolerate it, for all the numerous admirers he retains.

The contrast I'm trying to make is that Sunak has different methods of getting away with stuff. You talk about lack of knowledge of him, and that is important. It was time that exposed Johnson, not a change in the methods. The Economist did have an excellent article, when he was elected PM, on the undelightful history of Mr Sunak's incompetence, which seems to be so far not deeply set in the public memory. Do people forget that Eat Out to Help Out was a Sunakism, or forgive it as a relatively minor aberration in contrast to the numerous mistakes of others?

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:53 pm**

Looks like we'll have to rely on Gary Lineker to lead the opposition.

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:06 pm**

IvanV wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:52 pm

jimbob wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:27 pm

IvanV wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:12 pm
Sunak has always been on the right of the Conservative party, if a somewhat different nuance of right from Johnson or Truss. Let not his avoidance of their visible flaws, and apparent reasonableness and careful hand on the tiller, distract us from the fact that social equity forms no genuine part of his aims.
Indeed not, but due to lack of knowledge about him, he had been perceived as less deranged than his two predecessors.
I don't think Johnson is deranged. His methods were quite effective - from his own perspective - for several years. But eventually enough people saw through him, and were unwilling to tolerate it, for all the numerous admirers he retains.

The contrast I'm trying to make is that Sunak has different methods of getting away with stuff. You talk about lack of knowledge of him, and that is important. It was time that exposed Johnson, not a change in the methods. The Economist did have an excellent article, when he was elected PM, on the undelightful history of Mr Sunak's incompetence, which seems to be so far not deeply set in the public memory. Do people forget that Eat Out to Help Out was a Sunakism, or forgive it as a relatively minor aberration in contrast to the numerous mistakes of others?

I think we're violently agreeing.

It's that Sunak's *visible* staking out of the right wing looks to be a miscalculation

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:45 pm**

Does this go in this thread, or one of the Brexit ones?

The Guardian wrote:The UK’s trade agreement with the EU could be immediately terminated if the British government quits the European convention on human rights (EHCR) over the issue of stopping small boat crossings across the Channel, legal experts have said.

Under the 2020 trade and cooperation agreement (TCA), the EU has the right to take retaliatory action including the ending of the hard-fought agreements on extradition and access to the database of biometric data including fingerprints and DNA, said Steve Peers, a professor of EU and human rights law.

clicky

(I don't think there'll be any leaving the ECHR (convention), or denouncement of its rights, but reckon that the Tories will be campaigning on amending the Human Rights Act so that judgments from the ECHR (court) can be ignored by UK courts next election)

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:36 am**

lpm wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:46 am
How many people will say "I was planning to become a slave in Britain but this changes everything"?

Is it too early to think of changing the words of Rule Britannia! ? Maybe what the Tories mean by obeying international law is the bit which says refugees shouldn't get worse treatment than citizens, or comething like that.

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:26 am**

All you woke nay-sayers, I'll think you'll find the dirty foreigners actually welcome this bill.

Take that!

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:57 am**

The solution to the small boats crisis is clear...

Given that a common reason for people choosing to come to the UK rather than stay in France is that they speak the language, we need to change the UK's official language to French so they might as well look for work in France and not risk the crossing.

Simple really.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:14 am**

I have started a new thread on the ID cards and migrant motivations discussion. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3802

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:15 pm**

With reference to TopBadger's signature, I do think that the sewage issue is going to be particularly toxic, with two heavyweight Tory papers (Times and Telegraph) having campaigns on river water quality. It obviously resonates with a lot of their natural constituency.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:32 pm**

My god, Sunak is so bad at politics.

Be decisive, one way or the other. Fire the bully. Don't fire the bully. But do it instantly.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:51 pm**

This is his last chance to show strength.

Posted: **Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:05 pm**

He's probably hoping psycho dom resigns... or perhaps he's popped to the winchester for a pint and wait until this all blows over

Posted: **Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:28 am**

It seems to me possible that Raab is bullying Sunak. I've known several cases where people bullied and intimadated those technically above them in the management chain. It isn't always punching down.
The story is front page on the Times and Telegraph, but not on the usual right wing sources, Mail, Express or BBC.

Posted: **Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:20 am**

Formerly AvP wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:28 am

The story is front page on the Times and Telegraph, but not on the usual right wing sources, Mail, Express or BBC.

It’s the top story on the BBC website! How can you claim otherwise?

Scrutable

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