Mastodon (not heavy metal)

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:03 pm

nekomatic wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:40 pm
How strongly does an average Mastodon user identify with the particular instance they use?
I think this will emerge over time. But it seems from the software design that the intention is for people to identify to a substantial extent with the server. First because there is the Local feed (which on many servers is a fire hose, although not as much as the Federated feed, which I suspect will disappear as it's unusable and possibly a resource hog), and second because if you display your followers, those who are on the local server have the server name removed (e.g., if you are on xyz.social I will appear as "@sTeamTraen@mastodon.social", whereas if you are also on mastodon.social then I will just appear as "@sTeamTraen").

Basically I think Mastodon is a fabulous idea for a world where there is also Twitter, but any large-scale migration from Twitter will mess it up very badly. The key point is that it's decentralised, and Twitter isn't, and most of the issues will emerge from there: "My Mastodon post was deleted", no, your xyz.social post was deleted, and you need to understand that.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by nekomatic » Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:17 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:03 pm
any large-scale migration from Twitter will mess it up very badly
I see from the link you posted earlier that Mastodonites have already started railing against their own forthcoming Eternal September.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by bjn » Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:50 pm

Serious question, is there any appetite for Mastadon.scrutable?

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:34 pm

bjn wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:50 pm
Serious question, is there any appetite for Mastadon.scrutable?
Only if you can get ".scrutable" registered as a top-level domain. :lol:

But more seriously: I would vote no. Part of the strength of this space is the division into relatively formal threads (ISTM that one of the main jobs of the mods is deciding when to split threads, to maintain focus), which the tweet/toot reply-after-reply format does not seem suited for — "threads" of that type seem to have a half-life of only a few hours.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by discovolante » Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:01 pm

It would presumably also need to be moderated (the fb one is a) quiet and b) has facebook's rules. As the official laziest mod I'm not too keen on that, otherwise I'd probably be ok with it.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Stephanie » Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:05 am

this stuff has happened for years. people have long had issues with .social and gargron, for various reasons.

servers pop up all the time. I had an account at a joke one for a year that we had to abandon because it was too expensive. I've seen several servers implode because of instance wars.

basically, you ain't seen nothing yet. lmao
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Stephanie » Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:16 am

discovolante wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:01 pm
It would presumably also need to be moderated (the fb one is a) quiet and b) has facebook's rules. As the official laziest mod I'm not too keen on that, otherwise I'd probably be ok with it.
Yeah, like I know a few of the admins there and could get a good initial block list going, but there are... dodgy instances springing up all the time, which means having to look at the nasty part of the fedi to keep users safe. There's also the cost. lot of people have used masto host in the past, but I think they've been hammered with the new users at the moment.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by dyqik » Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:38 am

Stephanie wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:16 am
discovolante wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:01 pm
It would presumably also need to be moderated (the fb one is a) quiet and b) has facebook's rules. As the official laziest mod I'm not too keen on that, otherwise I'd probably be ok with it.
Yeah, like I know a few of the admins there and could get a good initial block list going, but there are... dodgy instances springing up all the time, which means having to look at the nasty part of the fedi to keep users safe. There's also the cost. lot of people have used masto host in the past, but I think they've been hammered with the new users at the moment.
Cost wise, this server can probably take the load, but it would come with a lot more hassle to maintain.

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by nekomatic » Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:56 pm

bjn wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:50 pm
Serious question, is there any appetite for Mastadon.scrutable?
Personally I've decided to stick with Twitter unless/until it actually collapses. It's informative and entertaining but I reckon I could live without it for the time it would take to identify an alternative and find the people I wanted to follow there, so I don't feel the urgent need of a lifeboat just now. That's my vote anyway.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:01 pm

Longish read detailing one server's tribulations with Nazi content and subsequent issues with Eugen/Gargron.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:12 pm

So, you know how verifying yourself on Mastodon is easy, because you just have to include a link to your website?

Well, CISA — the US government's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, which presumably is expected to do what it says on the tin — recently discovered that people were creating fake accounts in their name. So they created an official one, @cisacyber@infosec.exchange (confirmed, implicitly, here).

Here is the profile of that account. Note the complete absence of verification information. 🤦‍♂️

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:18 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:12 pm
So, you know how verifying yourself on Mastodon is easy, because you just have to include a link to your website?

Well, CISA — the US government's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, which presumably is expected to do what it says on the tin — recently discovered that people were creating fake accounts in their name. So they created an official one, @cisacyber@infosec.exchange (confirmed, implicitly, here).

Here is the profile of that account. Note the complete absence of verification information. 🤦‍♂️


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Just my experience but I needed to provide a homepage to verify my identity when signing up. But I didn’t have to put that in my profile.

So the server admins know who I am but I could keep that from other users if I wanted.

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by nekomatic » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:31 pm

Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by dyqik » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:36 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:12 pm
So, you know how verifying yourself on Mastodon is easy, because you just have to include a link to your website?
You have to provide a link to your website to which you've added a specific bit of html.

Getting a government website changed to include that bit of code is not trivial.

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:50 pm

nekomatic wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:31 pm
Here’s a thing about Mastodon and European regulation
Thanks, that was interesting.

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:48 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:36 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:12 pm
So, you know how verifying yourself on Mastodon is easy, because you just have to include a link to your website?
You have to provide a link to your website to which you've added a specific bit of html.

Getting a government website changed to include that bit of code is not trivial.
Well, that's presumably going to limit the ability of official bodies to migrate from Twitter.

But how much effort does it require for the Director of the US government body in charge of cyber-security to at least put their Mastodon account ID in their profile?

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by dyqik » Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:11 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:48 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:36 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:12 pm
So, you know how verifying yourself on Mastodon is easy, because you just have to include a link to your website?
You have to provide a link to your website to which you've added a specific bit of html.

Getting a government website changed to include that bit of code is not trivial.
Well, that's presumably going to limit the ability of official bodies to migrate from Twitter.
No, it won't.

It's easier than getting Elon to personally approve you for your blue check mark (I assume he's sacked or driven out all of the people that used to do this by now), which is identical to the forty other accounts purporting to be your agency, but who have just paid $8.

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by jimbob » Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:50 pm

The things that make Mastodon a better for preventing harassment are the things that mean it's less good for campaigns or attracting attention say company customer services.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Millennie Al » Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:54 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:01 pm
Longish read detailing one server's tribulations with Nazi content and subsequent issues with Eugen/Gargron.
Contains a quite spectacular example of the usual free speech hypocrisy:
QOTO aims to provide a community where our users do not fear being punished for their personal opinions.
right beside
Demonstrating support for or defending ideologies known to be violent or hateful is a bannable offense.

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:40 am

jimbob wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:50 pm
The things that make Mastodon a better for preventing harassment are the things that mean it's less good for campaigns or attracting attention say company customer services.
Many social media tech tactics are basically harassment, and I suspect the future will judge them as such.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by jimbob » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:20 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:40 am
jimbob wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:50 pm
The things that make Mastodon a better for preventing harassment are the things that mean it's less good for campaigns or attracting attention say company customer services.
Many social media tech tactics are basically harassment, and I suspect the future will judge them as such.
I'm not sure I agree that, for example, Feargal Sharkey's campaign on river pollution .
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Stephanie » Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:21 am

QOTO is one of most insufferable instances on there. full of reply guys.
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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by dyqik » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:09 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:40 am
jimbob wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:50 pm
The things that make Mastodon a better for preventing harassment are the things that mean it's less good for campaigns or attracting attention say company customer services.
Many social media tech tactics are basically harassment, and I suspect the future will judge them as such.
Online advertising definitely is - popups, auto playing video, "click here to read more", etc.

Attempting to go viral is also part of that.

Marketing campaigns will have to get used to doing their work the old way, building support and real engagement, rather than relying on abusing algorithms to force their content into people's faces.

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Re: Mastodon (not heavy metal)

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:15 pm

Yes I was thinking of the systems used by tech companies - algorithmic engagement-driving practices - rather than individuals' posting strategies. But my post was hopelessly vague tbf.
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