FTX
- Stranger Mouse
- After Pie
- Posts: 2398
- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:23 pm
FTX
I normally post an informative link with details that will bring people up to date but this time I’m just going to post a link to this tweet and let people Agatha Christie this sh.t
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/sta ... YLkXkz--5w
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/sta ... YLkXkz--5w
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works
- Brightonian
- Dorkwood
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:16 pm
- Location: Usually UK, often France and Ireland
Re: FTX
I'd not heard of FTX, or Bankman-Fried. Just in awe of the nominative determinism.Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:08 pmI normally post an informative link with details that will bring people up to date but this time I’m just going to post a link to this tweet and let people Agatha Christie this sh.t
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/sta ... YLkXkz--5w
- Stranger Mouse
- After Pie
- Posts: 2398
- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:23 pm
Re: FTX
Popehat giving some useful advice https://twitter.com/popehat/status/1592 ... DxM1g7oJ7ABrightonian wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:48 amI'd not heard of FTX, or Bankman-Fried. Just in awe of the nominative determinism.Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:08 pmI normally post an informative link with details that will bring people up to date but this time I’m just going to post a link to this tweet and let people Agatha Christie this sh.t
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/sta ... YLkXkz--5w
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works
Re: FTX
There is precedent for a crypto-crymynal disappearing without trace - Ruja Iganatova.
Why doesn't it surprise me that there is criminality in something that in most cases is worth nothing but the confidence people have in it, and so useful to a certain customer base. Even stablecoins, that are supposed to be backed with large amounts of actual money, turn out to be rather dubious in many cases.
Given the customer base that might be upset, it wouldn't surprise me too much if the reason Ruja Ignatova is hard to find is that she is lying under a car park in Sofia. Bankman-Fried might also need to remember that it is not just the FBI that might be after him.
Bankman-Fried, Bear Stearns, you couldn't make it up.
Why doesn't it surprise me that there is criminality in something that in most cases is worth nothing but the confidence people have in it, and so useful to a certain customer base. Even stablecoins, that are supposed to be backed with large amounts of actual money, turn out to be rather dubious in many cases.
Given the customer base that might be upset, it wouldn't surprise me too much if the reason Ruja Ignatova is hard to find is that she is lying under a car park in Sofia. Bankman-Fried might also need to remember that it is not just the FBI that might be after him.
Bankman-Fried, Bear Stearns, you couldn't make it up.
- Woodchopper
- Princess POW
- Posts: 7084
- Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am
Re: FTX
Worth noting that Ruja Iganatova ran a pure Ponzi scheme that didn't actually involve any cryptocurrency (though claims that it did were used to entice people to put in their money).IvanV wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:59 amThere is precedent for a crypto-crymynal disappearing without trace - Ruja Iganatova.
Why doesn't it surprise me that there is criminality in something that in most cases is worth nothing but the confidence people have in it, and so useful to a certain customer base. Even stablecoins, that are supposed to be backed with large amounts of actual money, turn out to be rather dubious in many cases.
Given the customer base that might be upset, it wouldn't surprise me too much if the reason Ruja Ignatova is hard to find is that she is lying under a car park in Sofia. Bankman-Fried might also need to remember that it is not just the FBI that might be after him.
Bankman-Fried, Bear Stearns, you couldn't make it up.
- Woodchopper
- Princess POW
- Posts: 7084
- Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am
Re: FTX
Chap I worked with and quite liked got into crypto after moving to the USA. He’s actually bl..dy smart, but is a true believer. Weird.
- Woodchopper
- Princess POW
- Posts: 7084
- Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am
Re: FTX
There’s a long history of very smart people falling for scams. Intelligence breeds arrogance and complacency.bjn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:23 pmChap I worked with and quite liked got into crypto after moving to the USA. He’s actually bl..dy smart, but is a true believer. Weird.
- Bird on a Fire
- Princess POW
- Posts: 10137
- Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: FTX
Mrs BoaF's brother is a doctor who's invested a lot of money in crypto mining equipment. It's not gone well. I feel a bit guilty for being merely lukewarm, rather than actively cautioning, but it's not like my financial records boast of prudent decision-making.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
Re: FTX
A work colleague was significantly* into Crypto trading about 18 months ago - and often said how he was 'Up 20K' over a few weeks; though occasionally regretting that he hadn't cashed out a few days earlier.
I'm unsure whether to get in touch to find out how he's managed in the meantime, as prices seem to have at least halved since then - regardless of what has happened to whatever exchanges he was using.
* significantly in my terms anyway - I understood he had up to 70 or 80K worth at some point, but I'm not sure how much of that was ever realised.
I'm unsure whether to get in touch to find out how he's managed in the meantime, as prices seem to have at least halved since then - regardless of what has happened to whatever exchanges he was using.
* significantly in my terms anyway - I understood he had up to 70 or 80K worth at some point, but I'm not sure how much of that was ever realised.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: FTX
This. The big banks literally create money out of thin air and take a cut. It’s an appealing business model.
Re: FTX
And, crucially, a greater ability to think up clever self-justifying/self-deceiving arguments, that enable them to continue thinking the clear evidence that they are wrong doesn't stack up.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:29 pmThere’s a long history of very smart people falling for scams. Intelligence breeds arrogance and complacency.
Re: FTX
The FTX scammers did indeed cash in long ago.
But a Ponzi scheme will keep going, so long as Incoming Suckers > Departing Suckers + Grifter Extraction.
Grifter Extraction never falls below zero, so the transition moment is when Incoming Suckers < Departing Suckers + Zero. At that moment the pretend asset value collapses to zero because withdrawals must be restricted for Departing Suckers.
But a Ponzi scheme will keep going, so long as Incoming Suckers > Departing Suckers + Grifter Extraction.
Grifter Extraction never falls below zero, so the transition moment is when Incoming Suckers < Departing Suckers + Zero. At that moment the pretend asset value collapses to zero because withdrawals must be restricted for Departing Suckers.
Re: FTX
Ultimately, money is an IOU. This is argued at considerable length and with considerable cogency and force in Money: The unauthorised biography, by Felix Martin. I recommend this book.
An interesting demonstration of this was during a prolonged bank strike in Ireland. People ran out of cash, cheques could not be redeemed, it predated electronic plastic, etc. People could not transact. So people started to write IOUs, and IOUs from credible individuals were accepted, and then started to be passed on, ie, used as money. Similar things happened to cheques credible people had written. The recipient couldn't take to the bank to redeem so they would get their suppliers to accept them.
Money thus gains credibility from the credibility of the issuer to satisfy you, to redeem their IOU. The Federal Reserve has considerable credibility to satisfy you. A lot stands behind it. Some central banks have less credibility, it is traditional to mention Argentina at this point, for example.
How credible is Bitcoin to satisfy you? Not a credible as a long-standing big bank with large assets.
A separate issue is whether bitcoin is even money. The point of money is to act as a convenient medium of exchange. To be convenient, it should ideally be widely accepted and stable in value, so that prices can be posted. The cost of using it should be low. Bitcoin fails many of these tests. A particularly clever trick with bitcoin is that the high cost of transactions is not borne by the payer or receiver, but by third parties who "mine bitcoin". That's the clever trick without which the pyramid would never have been built.
Re: FTX
And fundamentally, the credibility of the Federal Reserve rests on political foundations created by the United States legal requirement to accept dollars as discharging debts, the United States legal authority to levy taxes and impose fines, and the United States legal authority to impose criminal sanctions on individuals who do not pay taxes and fines. Plus the United States' willingness and ability to pay its debts to the Federal Reserve.IvanV wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:17 pmMoney thus gains credibility from the credibility of the issuer to satisfy you, to redeem their IOU. The Federal Reserve has considerable credibility to satisfy you. A lot stands behind it. Some central banks have less credibility, it is traditional to mention Argentina at this point, for example.
How credible is Bitcoin to satisfy you? Not a credible as a long-standing big bank with large assets.
The economic foundation in this is the United States ability to collect taxes from the US economy, which depends on the health of the economy.
Re: FTX
I second this being a good and interesting read.IvanV wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:17 pmUltimately, money is an IOU. This is argued at considerable length and with considerable cogency and force in Money: The unauthorised biography, by Felix Martin. I recommend this book.
- Woodchopper
- Princess POW
- Posts: 7084
- Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am
Re: FTX
A long list of very dodgy practices: https://twitter.com/grdecter/status/159 ... szTOB8S9bQ