Knife crime amongst young people

[lpm]

Teenagers stabbing other teenagers is common enough, nearly always as a result of the demand for illegal drugs and the resulting trafficking.

That of course says nothing about this particular murder.

[Woodchopper]

Teenagers stabbing other teenagers is common enough, nearly always as a result of the demand for illegal drugs and the resulting trafficking.

Very rare for them to kill each other though.

[lpm]

Sadly you are mistaken. There were 30 murders of teenagers in 2021 in London. There is another murder of a teenager, allegedly by another teenager, in Chelmsford today.

[Woodchopper]

Sadly you are mistaken. There were 30 murders of teenagers in 2021 in London. There is another murder of a teenager, allegedly by another teenager, in Chelmsford today.

That includes murders by adults though. Teenage murderers will be fewer.

Even then it comes down to what we mean by rare. There are probably about a million teenagers in London, so even 30 is a tiny proportion.

[lpm]

I think you are underestimating the problem. In that list of 30 in London there are plenty of examples of 15 year olds murdering other 15 year olds. Plus there are the non-fatal teenage stabbings, relevant because it can be a random outcome once someone has been stabbed.

And I think you are underestimating the problem because the UK media is so racist. Approximately 75% of teenage stabbing victims are non-white. The media tuts at these drug/gang murders, but it does not get emotional. It only goes for emotion when a victim is white and attractive, and in the even rarer cases when the victim is a white girl. There are no floral tributes and grief displays for black victims.

[dyqik]

I think you are underestimating the problem. In that list of 30 in London there are plenty of examples of 15 year olds murdering other 15 year olds. Plus there are the non-fatal teenage stabbings, relevant because it can be a random outcome once someone has been stabbed.

And I think you are underestimating the problem because the UK media is so racist. Approximately 75% of teenage stabbing victims are non-white. The media tuts at these drug/gang murders, but it does not get emotional. It only goes for emotion when a victim is white and attractive, and in the even rarer cases when the victim is a white girl. There are no floral tributes and grief displays for black victims.

This is verging on whataboutism now. Please don't take it further.

[lpm]

I think you are underestimating the problem. In that list of 30 in London there are plenty of examples of 15 year olds murdering other 15 year olds. Plus there are the non-fatal teenage stabbings, relevant because it can be a random outcome once someone has been stabbed.

And I think you are underestimating the problem because the UK media is so racist. Approximately 75% of teenage stabbing victims are non-white. The media tuts at these drug/gang murders, but it does not get emotional. It only goes for emotion when a victim is white and attractive, and in the even rarer cases when the victim is a white girl. There are no floral tributes and grief displays for black victims.

This is verging on whataboutism now. Please don't take it further.

It's clearly not whataboutism. Although we have little information and can't speculate, sadly the problem of teenagers taking knives to school appears to be directly relevant to this case. I don't see how we can just race past the issue of school bullying being (in a subset of cases obviously) school bullying involving knives. And, referenced on another thread, there was a recent case where a teenage girl was injured in a stabbing when she rejected another teenager's demand for her phone number.

Nobody has to discuss knife crime on this forum if they want to focus on other issues, but not doing so obviously misses a large part of this violent murder and a growing problem in teenage lives.

[bob sterman]

Sadly you are mistaken. There were 30 murders of teenagers in 2021 in London. There is another murder of a teenager, allegedly by another teenager, in Chelmsford today.

That includes murders by adults though. Teenage murderers will be fewer.

Even then it comes down to what we mean by rare. There are probably about a million teenagers in London, so even 30 is a tiny proportion.

Some numbers...

It was 30 males aged 14-19 in 2021 who were killed in London (the statistic that lpm was referring to). Don't have exact numbers but it's probably about 300,000 males in that age group in London.

For homicides in general (including murder and manslaughter) in England & Wales...

The peak age for homicide convictions is 16-24. Over the past 4 years - approximately 40% of people convicted of a homicide offence were in this age group.

In the past 4 years, where the victim was 13-19 years old, sharp instruments (e.g. knives) were the method for about 70% of homicides (118/171).

Things are complicated by the fact that different age bands are often used for published statistics on victims and perpetrators. However, putting aside "adult" vs "teenager" - when young people are killed is most commonly by other young people. And it's most commonly with a sharp instrument.

[Al Capone Junior]

Well at least the population over there isn't armed to the teeth with guns.

Refresher: what does a gun do for you? Increase the chances of ppl getting dead around you, and of yourself getting dead too.

[Al Capone Junior]

Ok I just noticed that I'm a "clardic fug."

Wtf kind of ranking system did youz mugs come up with anyway?

[Woodchopper]

Sadly you are mistaken. There were 30 murders of teenagers in 2021 in London. There is another murder of a teenager, allegedly by another teenager, in Chelmsford today.

That includes murders by adults though. Teenage murderers will be fewer.

Even then it comes down to what we mean by rare. There are probably about a million teenagers in London, so even 30 is a tiny proportion.

Some numbers...

It was 30 males aged 14-19 in 2021 who were killed in London (the statistic that lpm was referring to). Don't have exact numbers but it's probably about 300,000 males in that age group in London.

For homicides in general (including murder and manslaughter) in England & Wales...

The peak age for homicide convictions is 16-24. Over the past 4 years - approximately 40% of people convicted of a homicide offence were in this age group.

In the past 4 years, where the victim was 13-19 years old, sharp instruments (e.g. knives) were the method for about 70% of homicides (118/171).

Things are complicated by the fact that different age bands are often used for published statistics on victims and perpetrators. However, putting aside "adult" vs "teenager" - when young people are killed is most commonly by other young people. And it's most commonly with a sharp instrument.

As I'm procrastinating I found some more specific numbers.

In 2021 in London 7 people aged under 18 were convicted for murder. All those convicted were aged 15-17.

The total population of children aged 15-17 in London was estimated to be 302 711.

I assume that those seven may be an under estimate as a 17 year old who committed murder may not be convicted until they are an adult. A further 28 were convicted at age 18-20, but of course some of them would have committed murder when adults.



Sources

Population estimates: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ernireland

Criminal Justice System statistics quarterly: December 2021 (last updated October 2022)
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... mber-2021¨
Use the Outcomes by Offence data tool

[jimbob]

Ok I just noticed that I'm a "clardic fug."

Wtf kind of ranking system did youz mugs come up with anyway?

I seem to recall it was AI generated names for paints.

[geejaytee]

Ok I just noticed that I'm a "clardic fug."

Wtf kind of ranking system did youz mugs come up with anyway?

I seem to recall it was AI generated names for paints.

Yup, they're from Janelle Shane: https://www.aiweirdness.com/new-ai-paint-colors/

edit: probably actually here https://www.aiweirdness.com/new-paint-c ... -17-05-17/

[Al Capone Junior]

Tragic as knife violence is, it doesn't even scratch the surface of the horrific toll Americans suffer daily from guns. We can only wish knife violence was a big concern here.

[notarobot]

Teenagers stabbing other teenagers is common enough, nearly always as a result of the demand for illegal drugs and the resulting trafficking.

That of course says nothing about this particular murder.

Do you have a source for drugs "nearly always" being the cause of knife crime among the young out of interest?