Johnson - goodbye, or au revoir?

[Millennie Al]

Lol. 90 days suspension!

While looking for a suitable picture to illustrate a Boris suspension, one of the top hits (which contains many such pictures) was to this remarklably accurate article from 2012:
Boris for PM? Hang on! As his zip-wire stunt creates an internet sensation, one of his fans warns he'd be a disaster at No.10

which says:

Can we imagine Boris issuing an emergency statement in Parliament following some national disaster such as ... an outbreak of disease?

and ends with:

But Boris is not a Prime Minister. We — and he — would do well to acknowledge that now before any more nonsense is spoken.

And then Boris went on to make the Daily Mail seem like a moderate voice of reason. Not many people can achieve that.

[JQH]

He may not be back in Parliament but he won't go away: He's like one of those floater turds that keep bobbing back to the surface no matter how many times you flush.

[IvanV]

No doubt the Speaker will be apologising to Dawn Butler and Ian Blackford promptly.

Edit: Sorry, I don't know how that "No" got into the previous sentence.

Exactly.

The speaker needs to accept that there is such a thing as objective truth, and when it is clear that an MP is lying, allow that to be stated without sanction.'

It is not civilised to use forms of words to pretend that all MPs are honourable in those situations when it is beyond reasonable doubt that a specific MP has lied.

But maybe the Speaker has got bogged down in some POMO b.llsh.t?

I don't think preventing people from saying "liar" really restricts people from saying the truth, and may have some benefit in preventing invective.

It is difficult, perhaps impossible in a pure logical sense. to disprove a defence of "I was mistaken, muddled, hallucinated, forgot, had a sudden brainfart, etc." People seem capable of believing some very remarkable untruths in defiance of clear evidence in front of their nose.

So I think it is better to say something along the lines of, "That is clearly not the case, and it is not a deduction a reasonable person could draw from the information available to you." That translates very closely into "You are lying", without triggering any problems of parliamentary language.

Fortunately when a minister is standing before parliament making a formal statement, they do have some duty to be well-informed and verify what they are saying. Hallucinating it shouldn't be a defence. So when Johnson said (fortunately didn't sing) "Somebody told me", and in fact no one did, that is misleading parliament. We can't prove that he didn't dream it, and has mixed up his dream with reality. Which is about the extent of his defence in that case. But in real life, people can easily dream that somebody told them. I'm pretty sure I have been mistaken in that way several times in my life.

[dyqik]

No doubt the Speaker will be apologising to Dawn Butler and Ian Blackford promptly.

Edit: Sorry, I don't know how that "No" got into the previous sentence.

Exactly.

The speaker needs to accept that there is such a thing as objective truth, and when it is clear that an MP is lying, allow that to be stated without sanction.'

It is not civilised to use forms of words to pretend that all MPs are honourable in those situations when it is beyond reasonable doubt that a specific MP has lied.

But maybe the Speaker has got bogged down in some POMO b.llsh.t?

I don't think preventing people from saying "liar" really restricts people from saying the truth, and may have some benefit in preventing invective.

It is difficult, perhaps impossible in a pure logical sense. to disprove a defence of "I was mistaken, muddled, hallucinated, forgot, had a sudden brainfart, etc." People seem capable of believing some very remarkable untruths in defiance of clear evidence in front of their nose.

So I think it is better to say something along the lines of, "That is clearly not the case, and it is not a deduction a reasonable person could draw from the information available to you." That translates very closely into "You are lying", without triggering any problems of parliamentary language.

Fortunately when a minister is standing before parliament making a formal statement, they do have some duty to be well-informed and verify what they are saying. Hallucinating it shouldn't be a defence. So when Johnson said (fortunately didn't sing) "Somebody told me", and in fact no one did, that is misleading parliament. We can't prove that he didn't dream it, and has mixed up his dream with reality. Which is about the extent of his defence in that case. But in real life, people can easily dream that somebody told them. I'm pretty sure I have been mistaken in that way several times in my life.

Parliament offers MPs an opportunity to correct the record. When they fail to do that, despite it having been pointed out to them that their statement was misleading, then it's perfectly reasonable to call them a liar. And parliamentary rules could easily be written to take that into account.

[TopBadger]

He may not be back in Parliament but he won't go away: He's like one of those floater turds that keep bobbing back to the surface no matter how many times you flush.

Thanks for that...

[IvanV]

Johnson doesn't want a vote on the report, he would rather it was passed without a vote. This can happen if no opponent of the motion requests a division.So he's telling his mates not to do that. Presumably that makes it easier to him to continue arguing it is all a stitch-up, if you can't actually see who voted for and against the report.

[Tessa K]

No doubt his forthcoming column in the DM will make it clear what an erudite, witty, statesman-like, principled loss to government he is.

[El Pollo Diablo]

If I was a Labour MP I would call for a division just to have the voting take place

[Martin Y]

No doubt his forthcoming column in the DM will make it clear what an erudite, witty, statesman-like, principled loss to government he is.

It's already making it clear that the ministerial code, just like all other rules, only applies to other people and not to Boris.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65930008

[discovolante]

Today, a couple of hours before going on holiday, I got an email about a case of mine which turned the case from 'tricky but ultimately manageable" into 'potential total clusterf.ck'. I'm going to have to spin my clients case as much as I can to avoid a finding against them (obviously with integrity and in line with my professional obligations, unlike some). If I'm successful, I'll feel that my 'talents', such as they are, will be well placed, but after the news of the last few days I'll feel like I could be making a hell of a lot more money doing something different.

[dyqik]

If I was a Labour MP I would call for a division just to have the voting take place

Not least because then there will be a record of who voted against the report.

[lpm]

No doubt his forthcoming column in the DM will make it clear what an erudite, witty, statesman-like, principled loss to government he is.

OK, say what you like about the man, but I think it will be valuable to hear his opinions via newspaper articles.

He has been Prime Minister, at the heart of world affairs. I expect him to give an insider's view on the great world issues of the day. What he thinks the rise of the Trumpism cult means for America and the world. How the EU negotiates. The things we must confront before the next pandemic. How climate refugees will interact with immigration policy.

Don't know what he'll write about first. No doubt it will be the war in Ukraine. His insight on what arms they need and how Putin is behaving will be fascinating.

[tenchboy]

The Daily Express reckons he was stitched up.
I kid you not!

express.png (175.16 KiB) Viewed 927 times

[From today's BBC review of the papers]
On the other hand, maybe Nadine is now working for the Express... and writing their Comment section... it would make sense.
She also stopped short of saying that he invented oxygen.

[Imrael]

No doubt his forthcoming column in the DM will make it clear what an erudite, witty, statesman-like, principled loss to government he is.

OK, say what you like about the man, but I think it will be valuable to hear his opinions via newspaper articles.

He has been Prime Minister, at the heart of world affairs. I expect him to give an insider's view on the great world issues of the day. What he thinks the rise of the Trumpism cult means for America and the world. How the EU negotiates. The things we must confront before the next pandemic. How climate refugees will interact with immigration policy.

Don't know what he'll write about first. No doubt it will be the war in Ukraine. His insight on what arms they need and how Putin is behaving will be fascinating.

Apparentlyh its the efficacy of appetite suppressant tablets for weight loss.

[Tessa K]

BORIS JOHNSON: The wonder drug I hoped would stop my 11.30pm fridge raids for cheddar and chorizo didn't work for me. But I still believe it could change the lives of millions

Apparently he has akrasia: 'the state of mind in which someone acts against their better judgement through weakness of will'.

Hhm.

[Brightonian]

Seems he's already broken the rules again by not getting the OK for his DM column: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65930008

[lpm]

BORIS JOHNSON: The wonder drug I hoped would stop my 11.30pm fridge raids for cheddar and chorizo didn't work for me. But I still believe it could change the lives of millions

Apparently he has akrasia: 'the state of mind in which someone acts against their better judgement through weakness of will'.

Hhm.

The parody is pretty funny, while we wait for the real thing.

You could almost imagine Johnson churning that out. It would be hilarious if they paid him £20,000 a column and all he wrote was crappy personal stuff about liking cheese. Every columnist did the "I tried the diet drug" weeks ago.

[IvanV]

Seems he's already broken the rules again by not getting the OK for his DM column: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65930008

ACOBA considers applications under the government’s business appointment rules for former ministers and the most senior Crown servants. Applications at all other grades are dealt with by the relevant government departments. ACOBA publishes its independent advice to departments and ministers when appointments are taken up.

I suspect he can ignore it with little consequence. What teeth has it got?

[monkey]

Seems he's already broken the rules again by not getting the OK for his DM column: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65930008

ACOBA considers applications under the government’s business appointment rules for former ministers and the most senior Crown servants. Applications at all other grades are dealt with by the relevant government departments. ACOBA publishes its independent advice to departments and ministers when appointments are taken up.

I suspect he can ignore it with little consequence. What teeth has it got?

They have some of them wind up ones that clatter about on your desk.

The Committee's own Secretariat stated in a 2018 Freedom of Information (FOI) request that "ACOBA, which has no enforcement power and therefore depends upon voluntary cooperation from applicants..."

wiki clicky

[Grumble]

Seems he's already broken the rules again by not getting the OK for his DM column: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65930008

ACOBA considers applications under the government’s business appointment rules for former ministers and the most senior Crown servants. Applications at all other grades are dealt with by the relevant government departments. ACOBA publishes its independent advice to departments and ministers when appointments are taken up.

I suspect he can ignore it with little consequence. What teeth has it got?

They have some of them wind up ones that clatter about on your desk.

The Committee's own Secretariat stated in a 2018 Freedom of Information (FOI) request that "ACOBA, which has no enforcement power and therefore depends upon voluntary cooperation from applicants..."

wiki clicky

Depends on a sense of honour then. Hahahaha! What an idea.

[Sciolus]

BORIS JOHNSON: The wonder drug I hoped would stop my 11.30pm fridge raids for cheddar and chorizo didn't work for me. But I still believe it could change the lives of millions

Apparently he has akrasia: 'the state of mind in which someone acts against their better judgement through weakness of will'.

Hhm.

The parody is pretty funny, while we wait for the real thing.

You could almost imagine Johnson churning that out. It would be hilarious if they paid him £20,000 a column and all he wrote was crappy personal stuff about liking cheese. Every columnist did the "I tried the diet drug" weeks ago.

You reckon he wrote it himself rather that just getting ChatGPT to churn something out? How would you be able to tell? They are an exact match: a fluent and apparently rational writing style with a total disregard and unawareness of factual veracity.

Of course, ChatGPT knows nothing of events after 2021, so would be unable to discuss recent events, and would have to resort to writing about trivial stuff instead.

[lpm]

The I like cheese parody that did the rounds was written by ChatWNKR, a similar dumb word generator.

[dyqik]

BORIS JOHNSON: The wonder drug I hoped would stop my 11.30pm fridge raids for cheddar and chorizo didn't work for me. But I still believe it could change the lives of millions

Apparently he has akrasia: 'the state of mind in which someone acts against their better judgement through weakness of will'.

Hhm.

The parody is pretty funny, while we wait for the real thing.

You could almost imagine Johnson churning that out. It would be hilarious if they paid him £20,000 a column and all he wrote was crappy personal stuff about liking cheese. Every columnist did the "I tried the diet drug" weeks ago.

You reckon he wrote it himself rather that just getting ChatGPT to churn something out? How would you be able to tell? They are an exact match: a fluent and apparently rational writing style with a total disregard and unawareness of factual veracity.

Of course, ChatGPT knows nothing of events after 2021, so would be unable to discuss recent events, and would have to resort to writing about trivial stuff instead.

Other LLMs get updated.

[Gfamily]

Surely its possible that Charlotte Owen herself is the mother of one of his children.

A lot of chutzpah drawing such prominent attention to his gratitude to a young lady about the same time his wife announces her 3rd pregancy, if the reason is along those lines.

I called out a tweet today that had a "Spot the difference" title to "A photo of a Boris Bike" and "A photo of Charlotte Owen"

I tweeted "Hang on, are you the baddy here?" - I know very little about the young person*, but the criticism of the appointment is getting very personal and bullying
And the OP deleted it and ack'd that it was a "they would do that!" level.

* I have a daughter and nieces about that age - even if clearly warranted, such a sinecure would give rise to a definitely over-intrusive level of attention.

[Gfamily]

... And the OP deleted it and ack'd that it was a "they would do that!" level.

Then deleted their account completely