Blackface traditions

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Blackface traditions

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:43 pm

Wow, look at all that brown soot on Piet's face! And the red soot on his lips! He's so sooty.
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Aoui
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Re: Blackface traditions

Post by Aoui » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:59 pm

I took today off to avoid the "minstrel invasion" as I call it. I have colleagues who are very angry and I've probably burned some bridges due to my beliefs. The argument seems to be "This is about kids" as if that is an excuse. I run into this issue a lot in regard to other cultures. A colleague was very upset when I looked at her with utter revulsion when she wanted to know if I had anything "Indian related" that she could borrow for her grandchild's birthday party. Everyone but me thought it was so cute that they would be whooping and doing "Indian dances" and wearing headbands with feathers. I'm originally from an area of the U.S. with a large number of indigineous people. It's like people here think my friends and acquaintances are characters from an outdated children's book and not real people. My colleagues also say "Ching chong ching" and such when the subject of Asians comes up. When my colleagues are not around and my clients do the same thing, I tell them what Dutch sounds like to a foreigner and ask it how it makes them feel like they are being made fun of. My clients have cognitive disabilities, but they seem to be a lot sharper on these things than my colleagues. The thing is, my colleagues are on the whole, nice people. They are not the lynching sort, but they are flat out oblivious.

I have noticed a big change in the last few years surrounding the Piet issue. I do work in one group where the colleagues seem to be a bit more enlightened. There are fewer blackface piets and more soot Piets. The Sinterklaasjournaal (the tv show tomp referred to) now has soot Piets. A British friend with kids in Dutch schools has said that her kids school no longer has black Piet's because "There are too many black children in the school now for them to get away with that", though she had gone rounds with them before about a huge Zwaarte Piet at the entrance to the school. This time of year I avoid the Saturday markets and most of the public in general. My husband is terrified of me making a scene when I see someone dressed up in blackface. I HATE this time of year....

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Tessa K
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Re: Blackface traditions

Post by Tessa K » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:24 pm

Pucksoppet wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:41 pm
Other traditions are the Rebecca Riots and Ceffyl Pren Welsh mob 'justice', both of which had participants that used blackface as a form of disguise. I am not aware that there were any racial connotations in either, but I could be wrong.
For these groups and for smugglers and other criminals, black face was the olden days equivalent of the black balaclava for activities mostly carried out at night, with no racial element at all. I doubt modern Morrismen and others would now wear a balaclava though as that has acquired too many terrorist associations. You might want to avoid substituting blue though unless you want to look like a Smurf.

As someone else said, traditions change all the time and it's only nationalist nostalgia that keeps some of them going. Why not change if what you're doing is really offensive to a lot of people? Isn't it more important to respect people than to maintain some tradition that is well documented and not at risk of being forgotten (an excuse for keeping it going).

The jam was still the same jam without the golly on it.

greyspoke
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Re: Blackface traditions

Post by greyspoke » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:32 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:24 pm
Pucksoppet wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:41 pm
Other traditions are the Rebecca Riots and Ceffyl Pren Welsh mob 'justice', both of which had participants that used blackface as a form of disguise. I am not aware that there were any racial connotations in either, but I could be wrong.
For these groups and for smugglers and other criminals, black face was the olden days equivalent of the black balaclava for activities mostly carried out at night, with no racial element at all. I doubt modern Morrismen and others would now wear a balaclava though as that has acquired too many terrorist associations. You might want to avoid substituting blue though unless you want to look like a Smurf.

As someone else said, traditions change all the time and it's only nationalist nostalgia that keeps some of them going. Why not change if what you're doing is really offensive to a lot of people? Isn't it more important to respect people than to maintain some tradition that is well documented and not at risk of being forgotten (an excuse for keeping it going).

The jam was still the same jam without the golly on it.
Indeed, though I do miss the tea-drinking chimps.

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jimbob
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Re: Blackface traditions

Post by jimbob » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:39 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:43 pm
Wow, look at all that brown soot on Piet's face! And the red soot on his lips! He's so sooty.
Exactly.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Grumble
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Re: Blackface traditions

Post by Grumble » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:53 pm

I was in a church last night and was quite taken with this kid’s art work.
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Herainestold
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Re: Blackface traditions

Post by Herainestold » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:59 pm

The racist roots of our society run deep.
Masking forever
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