General Election '24
Re: General Election '24
Sunak is about to emerge, if anyone wants to put the telly on.
Re: General Election '24
He'll moan on and on and on about how the system's corrupt and unfair to (his) voters.IvanV wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:20 amDespite getting so few seats from so much vote, I don't see Nigel Farage calling for PR. I don't think he's interested in having 100 seats in parliament. He's more interested in taking over or replacing the Tories, when he would then himself benefit from the FPTP advantage enjoyed in much of Britain by a single dominant right wing party, as the Tories have tended to be. His party did "benefit" from the more nearly PR-like voting system for the European Parliament, to get several MEPs. But he didn't seem to know what to do with them, except to fiddle the expenses system to get party funding money. Bit harder to do that in Westminster.
Then when his situation changes he'll moan on and on and on about something else.
- bob sterman
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Re: General Election '24
Saw Carla Denyer leader of the Green Party on Channel 4 saying that her party wanted to "shift the Overton Window".
Clearly forgetting the first rule of shift the Overton Window club - don't talk about the "Overton Window" (i.e. you can't shift the window by talking to the public using little known terminology from political science).
Clearly forgetting the first rule of shift the Overton Window club - don't talk about the "Overton Window" (i.e. you can't shift the window by talking to the public using little known terminology from political science).
Re: General Election '24
It's raining... will Sunak have an umbrella... to use an umbrella is to admit he made a mistake last time, to not use an umbrella makes him look silly again...
Another tense moment while we wait for the outcome.
Another tense moment while we wait for the outcome.
Re: General Election '24
Absolutely... Above shpalman said:IvanV wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:20 amDespite getting so few seats from so much vote, I don't see Nigel Farage calling for PR. I don't think he's interested in having 100 seats in parliament. He's more interested in taking over or replacing the Tories, when he would then himself benefit from the FPTP advantage enjoyed in much of Britain by a single dominant right wing party, as the Tories have tended to be.TopBadger wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:10 amFarage is great at single issue politics (first Brexit, now Immigration) but I'd bet less than 10% of Reform voters know his position on the NHS (which is to sell it off) and wouldn't want that to happen. Which just shows that a large number of people either aren't really paying attention at all.
Under PR we'd still have a Labour led coalition, and prior elections may have also generated Labour Led coalitions or at least moderated Tory-ones.
Given that LD policies now put them to the left of Labour, you'd think LD's would govern with Labour preferentially and the 60% that vote center-left would no longer have to endure long stretches of right wing governments.
I'm still thinking PR is better overall.
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
Re: General Election '24
That is why I actually want AV.shpalman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:48 amSleaford and North Hykeham held by the Conservatives despite a lot of their votes going across to Reform.
Well thank f.ck for FPTP or else they'd have MPs in parliament in proportion to that vote share and the Conservatives would have to have them in its opposition coalition.Grumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:39 amPoint made on Twitter, Reform vote share only 2% up on UKIP vote in 2015. Not a massive swing.
https://x.com/jneill/status/1809142711519207866
You can vote against candidates so the least unpopular person wins
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: General Election '24
His wife has a secret umbrella at the ready. She's wearing it.
- bob sterman
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Re: General Election '24
Middle ground. He's got Akshata Murty in the background holding the brolly just in case. The look on her face says "I said you should have taken a brolly last time! Now look what's happened"
Re: General Election '24
All she needed to say was they would shift the debatebob sterman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:32 amSaw Carla Denyer leader of the Green Party on Channel 4 saying that her party wanted to "shift the Overton Window".
Clearly forgetting the first rule of shift the Overton Window club - don't talk about the "Overton Window" (i.e. you can't shift the window by talking to the public using little known terminology from political science).
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: General Election '24
The scriptwriters put in a sudden downpour in that scene. But there was a failure in the special effects department.
Re: General Election '24
AV, where you list candidates in order of preference in a single constituency, is not PR. It can be even less proportional in its outcome than FPTP. It is what Cameron offered us and we rejected.
AV+ was proposed by the Jenkins Commission in 98, to have single-member constituencies and a top-up list to make it more nearly proportional.
The system we had for MEPs, basically the same as the Irish system, with multi-member constituencies and proportional within it, is a system how to get something a bit more nearly proportional while still having local representatives, albeit in larger areas.
Re: General Election '24
So Sunak is resigning as leader once a system to chose his successor is in place. No one is surprised, even though, just like Cameron with the referendum, he said he wouldn't.
He listed his "achievements" in his speech. Some were in the false/debatable category. Some were largely outside his control (eg lower inflation). And the rest were things I wouldn't be proud of. I think there was basically nothing really to be proud of that he could claim was his. At least he said he respected Starmer, thought he was a decent guy.
He listed his "achievements" in his speech. Some were in the false/debatable category. Some were largely outside his control (eg lower inflation). And the rest were things I wouldn't be proud of. I think there was basically nothing really to be proud of that he could claim was his. At least he said he respected Starmer, thought he was a decent guy.
Re: General Election '24
After being happy to be in charge of about the dirtiest electoral campaign by a major party since universal suffrageIvanV wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:01 amSo Sunak is resigning as leader once a system to chose his successor is in place. No one is surprised, even though, just like Cameron with the referendum, he said he wouldn't.
He listed his "achievements" in his speech. Some were in the false/debatable category. Some were largely outside his control (eg lower inflation). And the rest were things I wouldn't be proud of. I think there was basically nothing really to be proud of that he could claim was his. At least he said he respected Starmer, thought he was a decent guy.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: General Election '24
Meanwhile Dad's old constituency of Tonbridge had a surprisingly strong showing by the Greens
Con
Tom Tugendhat
20,517
40.8 (-24)
Lab
Lewis Bailey
9,351
18.6 (+3.5)
Green
Anna Cope
7,596
15.1 (+7.2)
Reform
Teresa Hansford
7,548
15 (-)
Lib Dem
John Woollcombe
4,234
8.4 (-3.9)
Kent
Tim Shaw
926
1.8 (-)
Socdem
Ian Grattidge
156
0.3 (-)
Con
Tom Tugendhat
20,517
40.8 (-24)
Lab
Lewis Bailey
9,351
18.6 (+3.5)
Green
Anna Cope
7,596
15.1 (+7.2)
Reform
Teresa Hansford
7,548
15 (-)
Lib Dem
John Woollcombe
4,234
8.4 (-3.9)
Kent
Tim Shaw
926
1.8 (-)
Socdem
Ian Grattidge
156
0.3 (-)
Last edited by jimbob on Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: General Election '24
Neither vote shares nor party policies and campaigns would be the same under a PR system. You can't completely change the game theory for both parties and the voters, and expect the same vote shares. Media coverage would probably shift substantially as well.TopBadger wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:35 amAbsolutely... Above shpalman said:IvanV wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:20 amDespite getting so few seats from so much vote, I don't see Nigel Farage calling for PR. I don't think he's interested in having 100 seats in parliament. He's more interested in taking over or replacing the Tories, when he would then himself benefit from the FPTP advantage enjoyed in much of Britain by a single dominant right wing party, as the Tories have tended to be.TopBadger wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:10 amFarage is great at single issue politics (first Brexit, now Immigration) but I'd bet less than 10% of Reform voters know his position on the NHS (which is to sell it off) and wouldn't want that to happen. Which just shows that a large number of people either aren't really paying attention at all.Under PR we'd still have a Labour led coalition, and prior elections may have also generated Labour Led coalitions or at least moderated Tory-ones.
Given that LD policies now put them to the left of Labour, you'd think LD's would govern with Labour preferentially and the 60% that vote center-left would no longer have to endure long stretches of right wing governments.
I'm still thinking PR is better overall.
Re: General Election '24
Two seats left:
South Basildon and East Thurrock - full recount this afternoon, three-way marginal REF vs LAB vs CON. Early reports had a REF win.
Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire - recount tomorrow, they can't be arsed today, SNP vs LibDem
South Basildon and East Thurrock - full recount this afternoon, three-way marginal REF vs LAB vs CON. Early reports had a REF win.
Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire - recount tomorrow, they can't be arsed today, SNP vs LibDem
Re: General Election '24
I see in the adjacent seat of Basildon and Billericay, Con won by 20 votes from Labour, and Reform 1,500 behind. That was after 2 recounts and a bundle check. Yet that's all done.
It does seem to be all a bit quicker than previous times. In previous elections, we'd still be waiting for the NI seats as they didn't start the count till 9am or something. And various Scottish seats with polling stations on islands would need to wait for boats to transport them to the count centre.
Re: General Election '24
Probably just wait for the morning ferry. No-ones in a rush, hey?IvanV wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:01 amI see in the adjacent seat of Basildon and Billericay, Con won by 20 votes from Labour, and Reform 1,500 behind. That was after 2 recounts and a bundle check. Yet that's all done.
It does seem to be all a bit quicker than previous times. In previous elections, we'd still be waiting for the NI seats as they didn't start the count till 9am or something. And various Scottish seats with polling stations on islands would need to wait for boats to transport them to the count centre.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
Re: General Election '24
One of the main Scottish seats with that issue won't restart counting until tomorrow.
Re: General Election '24
Yes, that was in the post I quoted
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
Re: General Election '24
It's the one with lots of islands. Rùm, Eigg and Lash, those sort of places. The postman probably takes the ballot boxes in his rowing boat.
- bob sterman
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Re: General Election '24
First misstep in 2029 election campaign.
Celebratory crowds in Downing St have been issued with Union flags, Welsh flags and Scottish flags to wave. A key flag missing.
Celebratory crowds in Downing St have been issued with Union flags, Welsh flags and Scottish flags to wave. A key flag missing.
Re: General Election '24
Yes, the red flag with a hammer & sickle bl..dy communist in Number 10 it's a disgracebob sterman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:15 amFirst misstep in 2029 election campaign.
Celebratory crowds in Downing St have been issued with Union flags, Welsh flags and Scottish flags to wave. A key flag missing.
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells (LibDem)