Scrutable

I also agree that there are vast amounts of people out there who wouldn't see this as specifically anti-semitic. At first glance, you see the artist's take on western leaders in cahoots with a blood thirsty leader committing atrocities against an entire people.

My point about the Kiddush cup is that there are motifs within this cartoon that aren't even within common knowledge (I only know about it after living in Golders Green for two years and getting to know our Jewish neighbours) - so the decision to include it in the cartoon by the artist is clearly meant as a nod to the "jewishness" of the main subject, rather than his position as Israel's leader in charge of its armies that are apparently committing atrocities.

It points to more sinister ideas behind the cartoon linked to anti-semitism, rather than satire of national leadership.

Bob...many people don't even know who the currently Chancellor of the UK is, let alone what happened in Germany 80+ years ago.

Bewildered wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:31 pm

However I do think the fact many won’t notice it and then might get suckered into defending it when it’s called out is the aim of putting anti-semitic symbolism in there but then denying it is anti-semiticsim. So maybe you should not be so surprised if you think about it that way.

This is an important point. So much of the twattering (I refuse to use any word implying conversation) on topics such as I/P and trans issues is carried out in the language of dog-whistles -- terms that seem reasonable and benign to most people but which carry particular meanings to those in the know. This makes it impossible for anyone not deeply immersed in the topic to join in, because they will inevitably fall foul of some shibboleth they are unaware of and say something which seems reasonable to them but is interpreted by everyone else completely differently, and therefore the subject of vitriol which leaves bystanders hurt and baffled. The result is increasing polarisation and any why-can't-we-all-just-get-along voices are forced out.

Take the case of the Scottish MP who used the phrase "from the river to the sea" the other week. Apparently this is code for "exterminate all the Jews in Israel" or similar. Is that what the MP meant? They denied it, but who knows if it was simply someone repeating a phrase they had heard or if it was a knowing dog-whistle? It's impossible to know, and all is wrapped in confusion. Of course, this chaos and division suits the Russian bots and their master just fine.

The libel about Jews killing/eating Xian children goes back much further than the Nazis. In the late 17th century, the libel spread among the locals in Sandomiez (southern Poland). There's a plaque in the local RC church about it. This claims the libel didn't originate there but came from elsewhere in Europe.

/end of history lesson/

Older than that, wiki clicky

In the cartoon he's not just killing kids - he's eating babies.

The alt right idiots are already accusing Hillary, Biden et al of this for several years, and a disturbingly large number of ppl actually believe it to be true.

So that's an extra way this cartoon spews forth steaming st bernard sh.t on a hot summer day.

Plus all the subtleties like blood libel, which I did get the reference bc I read about it a while back. But yes, finding this specific deep nerve and attaching a 240 volt arc welder to it also isn't helping anything.

And don't get me wrong, the artist has every right to draw and publish this under freedom of speech/expression/basic human rights, and the fact it offends ppl doesn't matter one iota. Freedom speech is hands down far more important than never being offended ever will be.

But just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should. You do have the right to constantly be an inflammatory jerk, but better outcomes are more likely if you choose not to be like that. File this under just being reasonable, a pathway many ppl should spend more time considering.

Sciolus wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:34 pm

...
Take the case of the Scottish MP who used the phrase "from the river to the sea" the other week. Apparently this is code for "exterminate all the Jews in Israel" or similar. Is that what the MP meant? They denied it, but who knows if it was simply someone repeating a phrase they had heard or if it was a knowing dog-whistle? It's impossible to know, and all is wrapped in confusion. Of course, this chaos and division suits the Russian bots and their master just fine.

I'm not convinced that a phrase which is a demand for all of pre-partition Palestine to be free is a code for "exterminate all the Jews". In a similar situation the ANC demanded the whole of South Africa be free. Despite blood-thirsty predictions to the contrary this turned out not to be a code for "kill all the whites".

Back to the cartoonist and his obvious and calculated use of virulent antisemitic imagery. He knew exactly what he was doing.

When he's not whipping up hatred of Jews - or drawing obscene images of Michelle Obama based on Qanon theories - he's whipping up hatred of wind turbines, vaccines and encouraging abuse of NHS doctors (e.g. https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19636 ... es-abused/).

He has form for using imagery to potentially incite violence...this one seems to strongly imply lynching...

https://twitter.com/bobscartoons/status ... 92/photo/1

JQH wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:41 pm

Sciolus wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:34 pm

...
Take the case of the Scottish MP who used the phrase "from the river to the sea" the other week. Apparently this is code for "exterminate all the Jews in Israel" or similar. Is that what the MP meant? They denied it, but who knows if it was simply someone repeating a phrase they had heard or if it was a knowing dog-whistle? It's impossible to know, and all is wrapped in confusion. Of course, this chaos and division suits the Russian bots and their master just fine.

I'm not convinced that a phrase which is a demand for all of pre-partition Palestine to be free is a code for "exterminate all the Jews". In a similar situation the ANC demanded the whole of South Africa be free. Despite blood-thirsty predictions to the contrary this turned out not to be a code for "kill all the whites".

Well, that's my point: it's apparently code for something, but as an only moderately engaged observer, I don't know what for.

Al Capone Junior wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:00 pm

In the cartoon he's not just killing kids - he's eating babies.

The alt right idiots are already accusing Hillary, Biden et al of this for several years, and a disturbingly large number of ppl actually believe it to be true.

So that's an extra way this cartoon spews forth steaming st bernard sh.t on a hot summer day.

Plus all the subtleties like blood libel, which I did get the reference bc I read about it a while back. But yes, finding this specific deep nerve and attaching a 240 volt arc welder to it also isn't helping anything.

And don't get me wrong, the artist has every right to draw and publish this under freedom of speech/expression/basic human rights, and the fact it offends ppl doesn't matter one iota. Freedom speech is hands down far more important than never being offended ever will be.

But just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should. You do have the right to constantly be an inflammatory jerk, but better outcomes are more likely if you choose not to be like that. File this under just being reasonable, a pathway many ppl should spend more time considering.

I was aware of the blood libel and the antisemitism. And also of the Hillary and Biden conspiracy theories about similar, but until your post I hadn't considered that those were also probably antisemitic in background - as opposed to being by people who were usually antisemites.

Sciolus wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:15 pm

JQH wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:41 pm

Sciolus wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:34 pm

...
Take the case of the Scottish MP who used the phrase "from the river to the sea" the other week. Apparently this is code for "exterminate all the Jews in Israel" or similar. Is that what the MP meant? They denied it, but who knows if it was simply someone repeating a phrase they had heard or if it was a knowing dog-whistle? It's impossible to know, and all is wrapped in confusion. Of course, this chaos and division suits the Russian bots and their master just fine.

I'm not convinced that a phrase which is a demand for all of pre-partition Palestine to be free is a code for "exterminate all the Jews". In a similar situation the ANC demanded the whole of South Africa be free. Despite blood-thirsty predictions to the contrary this turned out not to be a code for "kill all the whites".

Well, that's my point: it's apparently code for something, but as an only moderately engaged observer, I don't know what for.

It is a phrase which has been used both by Zionists wanting an Israel to incorporate everything west of the Jordan, and by Palestinians wishing for an implementation of the 1937 Peel Commission Plan. But more recently it has sometimes plainly been used with much harsher meaning. Thus it becomes tainted, and so probably rather dangerous to use.

I think your analysis in the earlier post I quote is pretty much spot on, despite your later confusion.

bob sterman wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:37 pm

Back to the cartoonist and his obvious and calculated use of virulent antisemitic imagery. He knew exactly what he was doing.

When he's not whipping up hatred of Jews - or drawing obscene images of Michelle Obama based on Qanon theories - he's whipping up hatred of wind turbines, vaccines and encouraging abuse of NHS doctors (e.g. https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19636 ... es-abused/).

He has form for using imagery to potentially incite violence...this one seems to strongly imply lynching...

https://twitter.com/bobscartoons/status ... 92/photo/1

Well the cartoonist is clearly a c.nt.