Misogyny legislation

[Tessa K]

If they can make this enforceable - which is doubtful, especially online - the prisons would be overflowing.

And how extreme is extreme?

Education is a better solution but that would take a lot more effort.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15gn0lq7p5o

[headshot]

I wonder if this is more of a pre-cursor to allowing bans of content and entry to the UK for the likes of Andrew Tate etc.

[noggins]

Isnt thia a budgetary/admin (good) thing, to funnel more resources at the problem?

[Tessa K]

Isnt thia a budgetary/admin (good) thing, to funnel more resources at the problem?

Resources need to be targeted where they are most effective. It is a good sign but will legislation just make offenders more covert? I'm not feeling very positive, I know.

[noggins]

surely the issue inst tracking down alphamale468 for posting a horrible message on gammonincelforum.com , its about tracing andrew tate’s funding back to wherever.

[dyqik]

If they can make this enforceable - which is doubtful, especially online - the prisons would be overflowing.

And how extreme is extreme?

Education is a better solution but that would take a lot more effort.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15gn0lq7p5o

It's already enforceable for every other protected characteristic. If you want to know how this will play out, look at prosecutions etc. for racial or religious extremism.

[discovolante]

I'm a bit confused about the posts in this thread. The article is talking about categorising misogyny as a form of extremism and looking at different policy options to tackle it along with other forms of extremism. Which I'm sure will include plenty of criminal justice stuff but not necessarily exclusively that. It isn't talking specifically about making misogyny a hate crime, it's broader than that.

[Woodchopper]

I'm a bit confused about the posts in this thread. The article is talking about categorising misogyny as a form of extremism and looking at different policy options to tackle it along with other forms of extremism. Which I'm sure will include plenty of criminal justice stuff but not necessarily exclusively that. It isn't talking specifically about making misogyny a hate crime, it's broader than that.

Definitely. 'Prevent' is the UK's most high profile part of the UK's counter-terrorism strategy, and Prevent focuses upon identifying individuals in schools, universalities and youth groups etc and then organizing interventions which are aimed at getting the person to choose a different path. Belief in extremist ideologies isn't a crime in its self (though such people may also commit associated crimes) and IMHO countering extremist ideologies should focus upon using strategies outside the criminal justice system.

As dyqik wrote, it seems likely that misogynistic ideologies that could encourage politically motivated violence could be handled in a similar fashion to, for example, racism, homophobia or religious intolerance.

[snoozeofreason]

I'm a bit confused about the posts in this thread. The article is talking about categorising misogyny as a form of extremism and looking at different policy options to tackle it along with other forms of extremism. Which I'm sure will include plenty of criminal justice stuff but not necessarily exclusively that. It isn't talking specifically about making misogyny a hate crime, it's broader than that.

Definitely. 'Prevent' is the UK's most high profile part of the UK's counter-terrorism strategy, and Prevent focuses upon identifying individuals in schools, universalities and youth groups etc and then organizing interventions which are aimed at getting the person to choose a different path. Belief in extremist ideologies isn't a crime in its self (though such people may also commit associated crimes) and IMHO countering extremist ideologies should focus upon using strategies outside the criminal justice system.

As dyqik wrote, it seems likely that misogynistic ideologies that could encourage politically motivated violence could be handled in a similar fashion to, for example, racism, homophobia or religious intolerance.

The phrase "Making misogyny a hate crime," also, I think, gets used in a rather misleading way. It's tempting to read it as a proposal to make it illegal to hold a particular opinion. This isn't, so far as I can see, something that anyone has seriously suggested. In general what is being proposed is to add misogyny to the list of factors that would aggravate acts that would still be criminal even if they weren't motivated by misogyny. That's a perfectly sensible thing to do, so it's unfortunate that it gets described in a way that makes it sound more draconian than it is.

[Tessa K]

It's not yet clear to me how the legislation will differ from the law against discrimination on the grounds of sex which is also based in misogyny. Does it have to involve violence or the threat of it?

[Woodchopper]

It's not yet clear to me how the legislation will differ from the law against discrimination on the grounds of sex which is also based in misogyny. Does it have to involve violence or the threat of it?

I'm not sure that there will be any new legislation.

From the article linked to earlier:

Yvette Cooper, the home secretary, has ordered a review of the UK's counter-extremism strategy to determine how best to tackle threats posed by harmful ideologies.

The analysis will look at hatred of women as one of the ideological trends that the government says is gaining traction.

[...]

The review will look at the rise of Islamist and far-right extremism in the UK, as well as wider ideological trends, including extreme misogyny or beliefs which fit into broader categories, such as violence.

It will also look at the causes and conduct of the radicalisation of young people.

Ms Cooper said the strategy will "map and monitor extremist trends" to work out how to disrupt and divert people away from them.

It will also "identify any gaps in existing policy which need to be addressed to crack down on those pushing harmful and hateful beliefs and violence", she said.

[...]

The work will inform a new counter-extremism strategy, which was promised in Labour's manifesto and which the Home Office says will "respond to growing and changing patterns" of extremism across the UK.

The review is expected to be completed by October. It is one of a number of policy reviews Labour has announced since coming to power in July, including the Strategic Defence Review, spending review and a review of the National Curriculum.

[...]

This is also not the first time the government has considered misogyny as a form of extremism.

[...]

A mass shooting in Plymouth in 2021 by 22-year-old Jake Davison, who killed five people before fatally shooting himself, was linked to Incel ideology.

At the time no further policy action was taken, but incidents like that one, and also the rise of social media influencers such as Andrew Tate - a self-proclaimed misogynist - may have pushed the new government to think again.

From that it looks like they are planning on integrating misogyny into existing counter-terror strategies. If so it may be a matter of new guidelines rather than new legislation.

Edit: to reiterate, an outcome might involve something like a lecturer sending a notification that a student had spoken sympathetically about a mass shooting that targeted women. Its not going to cover things like domestic violence or workplace discrimination (which are important but perhaps best dealt with in other ways).

[discovolante]

It's not yet clear to me how the legislation will differ from the law against discrimination on the grounds of sex which is also based in misogyny. Does it have to involve violence or the threat of it?

I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at because as mentioned above, no legislation is actually being proposed at the moment, what's happening is a review of the issue and the best way to deal with it. Woodchopper mentioned Prevent as an example which was the first thing that sprang to mind when I read the article as well. So apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick.

But if legislation is introduced then, in terms of the criminal side of things, I'd guess it would include something along the lines of an amendment to existing legislation which allows for a higher sentence where the crime in question (whatever it might be) demonstrates/is motivated by certain protected characteristics, e.g. race or disability, but which doesn't currently cover misogyny. There is guidance on the CPS website (generally a useful resource for criminal law related stuff): https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime - I don't think there's any need for me to go into the specifics of the legislation right now because the main info is on that page, although the relevant legislation goes a bit more into the specifics.

The law against discrimination on the grounds of sex, which arises from the Equality Act 2010, only covers civil matters and not criminal offences, so you would have to bring a civil claim against whoever had wronged you, and claim damages or some other kind of order declaring that you had been discriminated against, for example. Furthermore it only applies in particular contexts e.g. services to the public, management of premises etc - so you wouldn't be able to just sue some random person unless they were acting in one of those context.

ETA Woodchopper beat me to it, although leaving my post in as it's a slightly different take on the same point. That said I think Woodchopper is correct to highlight that the review seems to be focused more on extremism than your common or garden abuse in the street type of stuff, but who knows.

[Woodchopper]

ETA Woodchopper beat me to it, although leaving my post in as it's a slightly different take on the same point.

My post was quicker, your post was better.

[shpalman]

10 minute YouTube video of a psychiatrist explaining online incel radicalization. https://youtu.be/ckjoKSjQnnk