After Corbyn

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people

Who will be the next Labour leader?

Angela Rayner
4
5%
John McDonnell
2
2%
Keir Starmer
44
52%
Rebecca Long-Bailey
8
10%
Emily Thornberry
0
No votes
Clive Lewis
1
1%
Yvette Cooper
17
20%
Laura Pidcock
1
1%
Clive Lewis
0
No votes
Tony Blair
7
8%
 
Total votes: 84

User avatar
Gfamily
After Pie
Posts: 1663
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Gfamily » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:18 pm

Hmmm, this definitely looks like mud slinging to me

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ong-bailey

Starmer team raises questions about a RLB mailing that seems to have linked to a Labour Party contacts list
Starmer team then reported to the ICO for 'scraping' party member details.

The second part is the part that's reported to the BBC.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:31 pm

Lord Ashcroft polling and focus groups on why Labour lost
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2020/02/d ... he-coffee/

Of course he is a Tory. But his polling is usually considered to be methodologically sound, and if he's sensible Ashcroft will want to know the actual reasons why Labour lost. So I'm inclined to take it seriously.

No surprises when reading it. Lots of people who had thought of themselves as being working class lifelong Labour supporters voted Tory. Brexit was an issue, but there were many others. People felt that the party wasn't focused upon people like them and instead was fixated upon causes that they were not interested in (but were popular with students and middle class radicals).

User avatar
TopBadger
Stargoon
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:33 pm
Location: Halfway up

Re: After Corbyn

Post by TopBadger » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:19 pm

RLB has a four point plan to turn around the fortunes of the labour party
  • Get myself elected as leader
  • Get my mate elected as deputy
  • Carry on doing the same stuff as before
  • Win the next GE
Genius when you look at it... Ok, so that might not be her plan, but then:
  • Empowering members
  • A democratic revolution that boosts trade union membership
  • Scrapping the House of Lords,
  • Creating a green industrial revolution
Doesn't seem like that much better a list.
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1256
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:30 pm

Yeah, it's total b.llsh.t.

They kind of need to focus on the main stuff:

Health
Education
Security
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pm

Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
I fear that might become a very boring publication.

User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:12 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:30 pm
Yeah, it's total b.llsh.t.

They kind of need to focus on the main stuff:

Health
Education
Security
And jobs

While not raising taxes paid by people who vote Labour

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3449
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: nadir of brie

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:11 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pm
Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
I fear that might become a very boring publication.
Ooof - openly printing your own news is not a good look.

You're supposed to do it sneakily, via backroom deals and shared class interests.
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

Herainestold
Snowbonk
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Herainestold » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:13 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:11 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pm
Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
I fear that might become a very boring publication.
Ooof - openly printing your own news is not a good look.

You're supposed to do it sneakily, via backroom deals and shared class interests.
Yes. Do you want power or do you want to play around the margins?

cvb
Clardic Fug
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:15 am

Re: After Corbyn

Post by cvb » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... axes-study

I don't know what to think about this.

One bit in particualr.
Manifesto promises of higher taxes for millionaires and billionaires that made up a bulk of Labour’s messaging during the 2019 general election went down particularly badly. Many of those surveyed said they thought they deserved their wealth.

One woman interviewed in Wrexham said: “If you have worked hard you are entitled to it.”
I think Labour is finished if this is the general feeling of the public.

User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:27 am

cvb wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... axes-study

I don't know what to think about this.

One bit in particualr.
Manifesto promises of higher taxes for millionaires and billionaires that made up a bulk of Labour’s messaging during the 2019 general election went down particularly badly. Many of those surveyed said they thought they deserved their wealth.

One woman interviewed in Wrexham said: “If you have worked hard you are entitled to it.”
I think Labour is finished if this is the general feeling of the public.
That’s been the general view of the public for decades. When Labour politicians talk about higher taxes ordinary people assume that in the end they will be the ones to pay them.

Labour isn’t finished. But it needs a leadership that is able to persuade the electorate that it’s going to benefit from a Labour government.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1256
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:00 pm

Every single time there's an election where one party does really well, and another badly, there's always talk of "is X finished"? Sometimes, this happens before the election itself - there were various bits of talk around whether the US republicans were finished in advance of the 2016 election where they got control of all three institutions.

That talk happened after the 1997 election, and was renewed after 2001. It is very, very rarely the case.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
jimbob
Dorkwood
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: After Corbyn

Post by jimbob » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:26 pm

Good to see Richard Burgeon has identified Labour's problem. It wasn't Corbyn's leadership or his squandering resources on safe Tory seats. It was outrageous Labour MPs who didn't back Corbyn.

I suppose Corbyn was entitled to the loyalty that he demonstrated as a backbencher.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
JQH
Catbabel
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: After Corbyn

Post by JQH » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:31 am

I don't recall him actually discouraging people from voting Labour though.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1256
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 am

Oh god the burgon rapid fire b.llsh.t just keeps coming

https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusiv ... education/
Deputy leadership hopeful Richard Burgon wants to set up a ‘Tony Benn University of Political Education’, LabourList can reveal, because he says Labour has “failed miserably in relation to political education in the last few years”.
The suggestion is just one of a selection of party reform ideas being put forward by the frontbencher. He also wants to see ‘justice twinning’ of local parties, a “proper Labour Party podcast” and a “decent Labour Party YouTube channel”.
Burgon also ... implicitly criticised rival Angela Rayner’s claims of a “toxic culture” in the party
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
JQH
Catbabel
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: After Corbyn

Post by JQH » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:06 am

"Tony Benn University of Political Education" sounds suspiciously like "Re-Education Camp". And I'm a lefty. f.ck knows how it sounds to floating voters, never mind Tories.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
snoozeofreason
Stargoon
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: After Corbyn

Post by snoozeofreason » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:27 am

That's going to erode some of the proudest traditions of British journalism. In days gone by a Daily Mail writer would be expected to be capable of making up stuff like the Tony Benn University of Political Education. How will they learn to do that if Burgon keeps getting there first?
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?

User avatar
jimbob
Dorkwood
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: After Corbyn

Post by jimbob » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:49 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 am
Oh god the burgon rapid fire b.llsh.t just keeps coming

https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusiv ... education/
Deputy leadership hopeful Richard Burgon wants to set up a ‘Tony Benn University of Political Education’, LabourList can reveal, because he says Labour has “failed miserably in relation to political education in the last few years”.
The suggestion is just one of a selection of party reform ideas being put forward by the frontbencher. He also wants to see ‘justice twinning’ of local parties, a “proper Labour Party podcast” and a “decent Labour Party YouTube channel”.
Burgon also ... implicitly criticised rival Angela Rayner’s claims of a “toxic culture” in the party
He truly is of a calibre to debate with cabinet ministers at their own intellectual level.

I'm still trying to work out for whom I should vote for deputy. I've eliminated several. Pity Jess Philips isn't standing.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1256
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 am

For me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3449
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: nadir of brie

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:43 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 am
For me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
Not sure about Scotland - the last Indyref was very close, and that was before Brexit and without considering demographic turnover. I really think it's quite likely that Scotland will become an irrelevance to UK elections in the near future.

Labour needs to figure out how to win over the working classes again - that ought to be their raison d'etre. The labour movement sensu lato is in a parlous state in the UK, and is going to be needed more in the next few years of Brexshitting than at any time since Thatcher, I suspect.
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1256
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pm

Unfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3449
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: nadir of brie

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:23 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pm
Unfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
Spoken like a true, out-of-touch metropolitan elite.
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1256
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:47 pm

Hey. I'm not metropolitan.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

Trinucleus
Clardic Fug
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Trinucleus » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:11 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pm
Unfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
Don't forget the whippets

User avatar
jimbob
Dorkwood
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: After Corbyn

Post by jimbob » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:00 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 am
For me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
Yes, those were the two I was thinking - just haven't worked out which would be better.

I see that the Long Bailey cultists are out on Twitter.

Corbyn was highly effective and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on a PM than anyone else. That was in response to my observation that he had managed to lose to Theresa May.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

Herainestold
Snowbonk
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: After Corbyn

Post by Herainestold » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:59 pm

jimbob wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:00 pm
Corbyn was highly effective and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on a PM than anyone else. That was in response to my observation that he had managed to lose to Theresa May.
True.

Post Reply