After Corbyn
- shpalman
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Re: After Corbyn
I seem to remember that at end of the labour government, which had Gordon Brown in charge of it rather than Blair, the news was the MP's big-house-mortgages-on-expenses scandal.
If anyone is remembering Tony Blair losing an election because of the Iraq War they are suffering from a Mandela effect.
If anyone is remembering Tony Blair losing an election because of the Iraq War they are suffering from a Mandela effect.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk
Re: After Corbyn
IME, Iraq is mentioned by Labour leftists and LibDems, but not by people who
a) are pro Brexit rightists
b) anti Brexit Labour supporters
a) are pro Brexit rightists
b) anti Brexit Labour supporters
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: After Corbyn
I note that, almost a week after the election result, we still haven’t seen an apology from Tony Blair.
- GeenDienst
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Re: After Corbyn
Suggest a small amendment:
Of minor passing interest, there's a really odd piece by the Groans here, maintaining that the LDs supported the Iraq war by voting against it. Something about not being out and out pacifists, and hoping the troops all didn't get killed once it started.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: After Corbyn
Yep.Iron Magpie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:28 pmJust heard that out of 54 former English Labour seats lost 51 voted leave in 2016. Still think I'm wrong...?
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
- GeenDienst
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Re: After Corbyn
Or Lord Buckethead. Or that bloke I saw in Sainsbury's.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.
- GeenDienst
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Re: After Corbyn
Labour supporters who aren't anti-Brexit are generally lexiters, and this is confounded with leftiness.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.
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- After Pie
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Re: After Corbyn
Need a stealth candidate. Any Labour leader with the leftish, progressive, anti-Imperialist crdentials of Corbyn will draw the attention of the Establishment, the Americans, the Russians, the media, the banksters, Koch Bros, et al. That hypothetical person, like Corbyn will have no chance.
Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
Don't know who that is, or how that is accomplished but it is whats needed.
Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
Don't know who that is, or how that is accomplished but it is whats needed.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
- GeenDienst
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Re: After Corbyn
Right, another liar, then.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.
Re: After Corbyn
If you knew who they were, they'd be failing at stealth.Herainestold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pmNeed a stealth candidate. Any Labour leader with the leftish, progressive, anti-Imperialist crdentials of Corbyn will draw the attention of the Establishment, the Americans, the Russians, the media, the banksters, Koch Bros, et al. That hypothetical person, like Corbyn will have no chance.
Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
Don't know who that is, or how that is accomplished but it is whats needed.
Re: After Corbyn
So somebody who gets elected by promising A then actually does B? This would be a good thing?Herainestold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pmNeed to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
Re: After Corbyn
A better option would be someone who is moderate, and can work with existing institutions, but backed by a party policy book that is progressive and leftist. That way there's not so much of the worry that they will blow up the system or destroy what people have already won, but the left still trusts the aims of the party they lead.bolo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 pmSo somebody who gets elected by promising A then actually does B? This would be a good thing?Herainestold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pmNeed to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
Re: After Corbyn
Clive Lewis announced today that he’s definitely standing. I doubt that he believes he can win tho’.
- GeenDienst
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Re: After Corbyn
Seems he believes the problem is that Labour aren't Momentumy enough.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.
- Iron Magpie
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Re: After Corbyn
Yes absolutely. Why not? The tories have been doing this successfully for years. It's about time Labour started doing the same. As Corbyn pointed out after the queens speech the tories have already backed out of three of their election lies...ahem...commitments. All inside a week.
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Re: After Corbyn
So Labour squeaks in with a small majority, with, maybe 26% of the electorate having voted for them,* on a promise of something no more than moderately leftie.
And then, "Aha! April, May, June, July and August fool! What you're really getting is a full-on, radical socialist transformation of society!"
I'd give them about three weeks.
And this of course is entirely separate to the stuff about Labour apparently being better than that.
*Based roughly on Cameron's 2015 win.
And then, "Aha! April, May, June, July and August fool! What you're really getting is a full-on, radical socialist transformation of society!"
I'd give them about three weeks.
And this of course is entirely separate to the stuff about Labour apparently being better than that.
*Based roughly on Cameron's 2015 win.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.
Re: After Corbyn
I find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
Re: After Corbyn
I agree - it would be difficult to turn round that majority in 1 term. I think it depends a bit how affected the economy is and how much people notice, especially is we leave end of December next year, with whatever can be negotiated in that time. EU / US Level playing field conditions will be interesting
- Iron Magpie
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Re: After Corbyn
Wow. This has to be the most bonkers thing I've read in this new place.sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pmI find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
The difference between them is nothing like what you wrote. The differences are many but on truth telling the difference is that Bozo has been sacked from two jobs for telling dirty great porkies and Corbyn hasn't...ever.
- Iron Magpie
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Re: After Corbyn
Glad you also brought up those conspiracy theories about Russia
Any idea when we are going to get a look at the report that the government have been hiding since before the election? No...thought not.
Any idea when we are going to get a look at the report that the government have been hiding since before the election? No...thought not.
Re: After Corbyn
Welcome to Sheldrake World, official language Newspeak.Iron Magpie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:56 pmWow. This has to be the most bonkers thing I've read in this new place.sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pmI find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
The difference between them is nothing like what you wrote. The differences are many but on truth telling the difference is that Bozo has been sacked from two jobs for telling dirty great porkies and Corbyn hasn't...ever.
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk
Re: After Corbyn
That's because Corbyn haa never had a real job outside of politics. Corbyn has lied repeatedly.Iron Magpie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:56 pmWow. This has to be the most bonkers thing I've read in this new place.sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pmI find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
The difference between them is nothing like what you wrote. The differences are many but on truth telling the difference is that Bozo has been sacked from two jobs for telling dirty great porkies and Corbyn hasn't...ever.
Last edited by sheldrake on Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Iron Magpie
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Re: After Corbyn
^^^^surely has to be worth a double facepalm. Try reading something other than the Daily Mail and you will find that isn't true. Now I understand why you think Boris and JC have things in common re truth telling. You wouldn't recognise the truth if it stood up in your soup.
Re: After Corbyn
Would you lie to explain why Corbyn stopped telling the truth about his views on Brexit ?
His repeated lies on TV about antisemitism in the Labour party, outed by members of his own party ?
His repeated lies on TV about antisemitism in the Labour party, outed by members of his own party ?