After Corbyn

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people

Who will be the next Labour leader?

Angela Rayner
4
5%
John McDonnell
2
2%
Keir Starmer
42
51%
Rebecca Long-Bailey
8
10%
Emily Thornberry
0
No votes
Clive Lewis
1
1%
Yvette Cooper
17
21%
Laura Pidcock
1
1%
Clive Lewis
0
No votes
Tony Blair
7
9%
 
Total votes: 82

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Martin_B
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by Martin_B » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:22 am

Herainestold wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 am
Need to work on stategies to get young people to vote and discourage the oldies. Could be a good project for Labour in tandem with pro democracy activists.
Remove assisted access to polling stations? (Would run into issues removing disabled access.)
Allow e-voting from phones/tablets and remove physical polling stations?
Provide all voters with discount vouchers for … (I don't know - I'm not young!)?
Do what Australia does and make voting compulsory?
"Don't tell me that the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon"

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:26 am

Martin_B wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:22 am
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 am
Need to work on stategies to get young people to vote and discourage the oldies. Could be a good project for Labour in tandem with pro democracy activists.
Remove assisted access to polling stations? (Would run into issues removing disabled access.)
Allow e-voting from phones/tablets and remove physical polling stations?
Provide all voters with discount vouchers for … (I don't know - I'm not young!)?
Do what Australia does and make voting compulsory?
Nando's vouchers and/or debt relief, please!

Signed, A. Young Person
"Ecology without socialism is just gardening" - Chico Mendes

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Martin_B
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by Martin_B » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:01 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:26 am
Martin_B wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:22 am
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 am
Need to work on stategies to get young people to vote and discourage the oldies. Could be a good project for Labour in tandem with pro democracy activists.
Remove assisted access to polling stations? (Would run into issues removing disabled access.)
Allow e-voting from phones/tablets and remove physical polling stations?
Provide all voters with discount vouchers for … (I don't know - I'm not young!)?
Do what Australia does and make voting compulsory?
Nando's vouchers and/or debt relief, please!

Signed, A. Young Person
You are Alex Brooker AICMFP!
"Don't tell me that the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon"

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Re: After Corbyn

Post by plebian » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:36 am

We shouldn't be discouraging anyone from voting, that's completely at odds with a healthy democracy.

Getting young people engaged is the thing.
Pithy, well, a right helmet at least.

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Re: After Corbyn

Post by plodder » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:59 am

f.cking hell you lot are a parody. This is how you come across:

We believe that the correct people that Labour need to target are the following; and that one these core supporters are invigorated with our message, the rest of the country will follow in our footsteps!

Vegetarians
Sandel wearers
The bearded
The youthful
The Ramblers
Those concerned about the fate of the poor
Those who make their own yoghurt
Those who appreciate the Arts and Literature
Smokers of pipes
Bird watchers
The intelligent lower classes
Library workers
Union members
The agitators
School teachers
Artisans / tradespeople as appropriate

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JQH
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by JQH » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:37 am

Apart from "the youthful" that's not the impression I'm getting.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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murmur
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by murmur » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:14 am

Herainestold wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 am
Need to work on stategies to get young people to vote and discourage the oldies. Could be a good project for Labour in tandem with pro democracy activists.
And you can just f.ck right off with that anti-democratic, ageist sh.t!

How about convincing people of whatever age that they should vote Labour? Or is spouting prejudice and denying people democratic rights easier?

Yours,

An old person who never has and never will vote Tory
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk

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snoozeofreason
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by snoozeofreason » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:18 pm

jdc wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:34 am
Yougov poll here: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... l-election with breakdowns by age/gender etc. People are definitely voting for Boris, and some of them are women. 18-24 age range if you're looking for a gender gap. 25+ and it's pretty much gone.
AFAIK that's a pattern that is found with most issues. Gender accounts for some of the variation in people's opinions, but not much when compared with other factors such as age and level of education. I'd guess that the larger gender gap in voting for the 18-24 age range is partly accounted for by the fact that women in that age range are more likely to be graduates, or students, than men are.

Education seems to be quite a good cure for voting Tory, so maybe we should be providing free degree tuition for older people.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?

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Re: After Corbyn

Post by shpalman » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:28 pm

murmur wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:14 am
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 am
Need to work on stategies to get young people to vote and discourage the oldies. Could be a good project for Labour in tandem with pro democracy activists.
And you can just f.ck right off with that anti-democratic, ageist sh.t!

How about convincing people of whatever age that they should vote Labour? Or is spouting prejudice and denying people democratic rights easier?

Yours,

An old person who never has and never will vote Tory
... then you are not part of the problem we are trying to solve.
molto tricky

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shpalman
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by shpalman » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:32 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:46 am
How many have said that they would have voted tory except that they couldn't vote for Johnson because he's a womanizing lying cheat, so didn't vote tory? Because Johnson wins elections, so someone must be voting for him. And they know what kind of man he is.
I don't remember reports of anyone saying that they would have voted tory except that they couldn't vote for Johnson. I do remember reports of people saying they would have voted labour except that they couldn't vote for Corbyn. So maybe labour could start with getting those people back?
molto tricky

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Gentleman Jim
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:46 pm

shpalman wrote:
I don't remember reports of anyone saying that they would have voted tory except that they couldn't vote for Johnson.
There were one or two such interviews, amazingly on the BBC but only on the London regional programme.
The women interviewed were of Boris's age group, normally voted tory they said but could stand the man
It was definitely "leafy suburb" territory - may even have been in Boris' constituency

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shpalman
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by shpalman » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:22 pm

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:46 pm
shpalman wrote:
I don't remember reports of anyone saying that they would have voted tory except that they couldn't vote for Johnson.
There were one or two such interviews, amazingly on the BBC but only on the London regional programme.
The women interviewed were of Boris's age group, normally voted tory they said but could stand the man
It was definitely "leafy suburb" territory - may even have been in Boris' constituency
If it were in Boris' constituency then they would "normally voted tory" up until 2015 when Boris took over in it; thanks for the data point though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxbridge_ ... _the_2010s

(Both the absolute number of conservative votes and the percentage vote share have only been increasing in Uxbridge and South Ruislip, although whether it's more or less than the national trend is left as an exercise for the leader.)

For comparison: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islington ... _the_2010s

(Corbyn lost a bit in 2019 as compared to 2017 but is a far better performer in his constituency than Boris is in his. But we always knew that Corbyn is really loved by a few people, which doesn't average out into being liked just enough by enough people.)
molto tricky

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murmur
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by murmur » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:25 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:28 pm
murmur wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:14 am
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 am
Need to work on stategies to get young people to vote and discourage the oldies. Could be a good project for Labour in tandem with pro democracy activists.
And you can just f.ck right off with that anti-democratic, ageist sh.t!

How about convincing people of whatever age that they should vote Labour? Or is spouting prejudice and denying people democratic rights easier?

Yours,

An old person who never has and never will vote Tory
... then you are not part of the problem we are trying to solve.
And that problem won't be solved by stupid and discriminatory suggestions like the one I quoted, will it? That sort of thing just serves to alienate people further and exaccerbate that problem.

Herainestold seems to be wanting to put Brecht's quip about getting a new electorate into action or suggesting that only follk holding The Correct Ideas be allowed to vote (thinks - who gets to decide that one?).
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk

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Re: After Corbyn

Post by Herainestold » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:55 pm

If Labour wants to gain power they have to be serious about it and use every tool at their disposal. You know the other side will.

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:28 pm

Thanks for that.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:37 am

This news titbit is interesting - Labour's biggest swing in the 2019 election was to not voting at all. Roughly equal losses to the Lit Dems and the Tories.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 3324739acb
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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Re: After Corbyn

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:08 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:37 am
This news titbit is interesting - Labour's biggest swing in the 2019 election was to not voting at all. Roughly equal losses to the Lit Dems and the Tories.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 3324739acb
ISTR that's part of why Clinton lost the election as well (I know she won the popular vote) - lots of democrat supporters didn't like her, albeit for opposite reasons to Corbyn.
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by plodder » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:12 am

The flip side is that fewer people didn't not like Johnson / Trump enough to not vote for them.

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Re: After Corbyn

Post by jimbob » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:32 am

Here's RLB insightful analysis of Brexit
Rebecca Long-Bailey
@RLong_Bailey
Britain’s departure from the EU comes after what have been difficult years for us all. Many of us are rightly worried about the future. It breaks my heart that despite our bold manifesto & their record, the Tories used Brexit to convince people they were change candidates.
I think it means, "don't blame Corbyn or me"
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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murmur
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by murmur » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:24 am

It's too vacuous to tell. Or else one can ascribe whatever meaning one wishes to it as it is so lacking in meaning.

But never mind, as we've recently been told just in this very thread, Labour must do whatever is necessary to get back into power, so that'll be OK...
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk

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murmur
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by murmur » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:04 am

But Long Bailey is scarcely alone in spouting meaningless phrases which the audience can interpret how they like: Brexit means Brexit; get Brexit done; education, education, education; big society; taking back control...It's a long list.
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:37 pm

Went to my first CLP meeting. Leader vote went as a tie between WTLB and Starmer. If its decided on most first pref votes then WTLB will win.

Deputy vote went to Angela Rayner, but not before Richard f.cking Burgon got the most first preference votes.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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Re: After Corbyn

Post by plodder » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:30 am

Did you feel at home with the people in the room?

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:33 pm

Not really. Much delusion abounded. Lots of very old people there, probably five or six under 60 out of the thirty who went.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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jimbob
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Re: After Corbyn

Post by jimbob » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:45 pm

Well my constituency voted for Starmer.

As did Islington North, I see.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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