Scrutable

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:05 am

No, more like supporting a team, but if they start getting managed by racist fuckholes, you leave.

Poor analogy really. You don't get a vote with team supporting - although it has been tried*


*See history of Ebbsfleet Utd for one

Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:05 am

No, more like supporting a team, but if they start getting managed by racist fuckholes, you leave.

Poor analogy really. You don't get a vote with team supporting - although it has been tried*


*See history of Ebbsfleet Utd for one

Jim Gannon could rally those salt-of-the-earth-working-class northern seats. Is he a member?

To be fair, if Corbyn tries to hang around, Labour MPs can start a leadership election any time they want. If Corbyn were to stand in that all hell would break loose.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:21 am

To be fair, if Corbyn tries to hang around, Labour MPs can start a leadership election any time they want. If Corbyn were to stand in that all hell would break loose.

Yes, someone credible needs to challenge him, not some hopeless Owen Smith type nobody. But who has the backbone to challenge him? Momentum are still there, in all their constituencies.

It would be hilarious if he did stand, and won.

I reckon Kier Starmer is probably pretty pissed off this morning. f.ck me I hope he stands.

GeenDienst wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:17 am

Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:05 am

No, more like supporting a team, but if they start getting managed by racist fuckholes, you leave.

Poor analogy really. You don't get a vote with team supporting - although it has been tried*


*See history of Ebbsfleet Utd for one

Jim Gannon could rally those salt-of-the-earth-working-class northern seats. Is he a member?

Nice modern article "Sunday 5 December 1993"

I expect they want to try to arrange a process-free coronation for Long Bailey. Pidcock, the other female True Believer, has gone.

Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:27 am

GeenDienst wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:17 am

Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am

Poor analogy really. You don't get a vote with team supporting - although it has been tried*


*See history of Ebbsfleet Utd for one

Jim Gannon could rally those salt-of-the-earth-working-class northern seats. Is he a member?

Nice modern article "Sunday 5 December 1993"

You'll never win anything with kids.

Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:04 am

Grumble wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:52 am

Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:09 am

OK So how many of the whingers nice people here are actually members and so have a say in who follows Corbyn?
I will have my vote as I have for years now

I was but left because of Corbyn. I might rejoin now.

Ah, like supporting a team but if they start to lose, you leave

If that was the case then I would have rejoined after his moderate relative success in 2017.

Grumble - who's your early instinct for leader?

I'm not convinced now is the right time for a leadership election. There won't be another general election for months, and during the next 6 weeks parliament has a huge amount of brexit legislation to scrutinise.

Why not do the leadership fight during February, so brexit doesn't sully another politician's record.

The legislation won't be scrutinised
Johnson will push it through and suppress any committee reports, or just outright reject any feedback that does exist
Parliamentary accountability is, essentially, dead. All of the innovative consolidations of power that the tories brought in over the last nine years will be combined with having to give exactly no shits about anyone else.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:24 am

The legislation won't be scrutinised
Johnson will push it through and suppress any committee reports, or just outright reject any feedback that does exist
Parliamentary accountability is, essentially, dead. All of the innovative consolidations of power that the tories brought in over the last nine years will be combined with having to give exactly no shits about anyone else.

There's still the Lords.

Can't believe the best hope for UK democracy rests with a bunch of f.cking aristos.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:18 am

I'm not convinced now is the right time for a leadership election. There won't be another general election for months, and during the next 6 weeks parliament has a huge amount of brexit legislation to scrutinise.

Why not do the leadership fight during February, so brexit doesn't sully another politician's record.

Then he should step down and a caretaker can announce the timetable. His hanging on just reinforces what a sick joke Labour has become.

There will always be more sh.t to deal with, with this government. And the next leader isn't going to be PM anyway.

Can you add Stella Creasy to the list of possible leaders?

gosling wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:58 am

Can you add Stella Creasy to the list of possible leaders?

That would be a fantastic choice in my very humble opinion. She is an effective parliamentarian who has made a tremendous difference, not least for women in Norn Iron. And back when we had even a slim hope of remaining, she was effective in moving amendments from the back benches. She's clued up, bright and articulate, and we know she can change things. A genuine and passionate conviction politician worth, I'd estimate, about 15 Long-Baileys at current rates.

But, she was under threat of deselection 4 years ago, and last year called for the centre left to reassert control of the party.

Labour's Stella Creasy has launched a blistering attack on the "toxic" left-wing Momentum group, calling on moderates in her party to "take back control of socialism".
In a fiery address at a Progress rally on the fringes of the party's annual conference in Liverpool, the MP for Walthamstow implored moderates not to desert the party.
"There is no cavalry coming, there is only us to stand up for what we believe in," she said.
"I'm not asking you to stay put in Labour, I'm asking you to stand proud in Labour.
"Comrades, let's take back control of socialism."
Ms Creasy told the audience: "If you think being political means sitting in meetings or shouting 'Red Tory' at people who think differently from you, you can do one.
"Socialism isn't a scout badge you get for going on a protest march and trolling some MPs on Twitter."

She called Momentum "absolute melts", apparently. While any young persons passing by can explain what that means, it probably isn't nice.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens if the Comrades dare to elect a leader Momentum doesn't wholly approve of.

Electoral history:

Extreme left-wing manifestos lost in 1983, 2019

Left-wing manifestos lost in 1979, 1987, 2017

Moderately left-wing manifestos lost in 1992, 2010, 2015

Centrist-left manifestos won in 1997, 2001, 2005

You have to go back to 1974, 1966 and 1964 for victories by traditional Labour governments, not that Harold Wilson was leftie enough for the mad extremists of the age anyway. Repeatedly trying to win with an approach last successful 45 years ago is insane.

GeenDienst wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:17 am

Grumble - who's your early instinct for leader?

f.ck knows, I’m no kind of political analyst, but I do know that elections are won on emotions not rational argument so I hope it’s someone with more charisma than a teabag.

What about Lisa & Andy? Have they got any chance of being leader?

Are they puppets of momentum? If not, no.

So Corbyn's going "in the early part of next year".

And: "The national executive will have to meet, of course, in the very near future and it is up to them".

No it f.cking isn't.

In terms of the Labour party constitution, what are the options for forcing Corbyn out?

(Genuinely don't know - I've never been a member)

I'd like to present some reasons why I think most of the leading candidates (in the poll above) are not suitable. Having watched very closely the media mauling of various people within Labour and the things they have been mauled for I have come to the conclusion that the right person for the job is nothing to do with how clever or adept at the job they would be. FFS we now have as Prime Monster the most idiotic blowhard in the history of politics, that has dodged interviews with the leading political interviewer and even hid in a fridge to avoid such scrutiny. Clearly intelligence or the ability to field questions is not even close to being enough as leader of Labour.
Anyway here we go...
Starmer...assertive and confident, but what would the media paint him as? Tony Blair MkII. That's what. Too slick looking, a former barrister and a Sir no less. Hardly likely to win back those trad working class heartlands as he will be seen as yet another "Champagne Socialist" even if he isn't. That's how the media will portray him and despite the seeming love for Blair on these boards...to everyone else he is toxic.
Cooper...Former Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Gordon Brown (AKA ((affectionately by the press))the Brown Gorgon). That rules her out straight away as she will be the actual person to blame for the 2008 Global financial crash. I know she isn't and so does everyone here but we are talking about how the press will ladle it on.
Long-Bailey...Probably a good candidate but the press will have a field day describing her as a Momentum place(wo)man which instantly creates the image of heir to Corbyn and supporter of Corbynomics.

The only other candidates left with a reasonable profile are..
Thornberry...Another barrister so would be described by the press as a female Tony Blair plus will never ever lose the tag of White Van Man hating elitist. Also failed her 11 plus which would be used as a stick to beat her.
And then my fave for the job...
Angela Raynor...working class, single mother at 16, went to comprehensive and look where she is now. Yes her lack of school qualifications would be used but I think in her case the public could well see any use of her history as being somewhat bullying and it would also alienate a lot of women.

So thems me thoughts. Feel free to tell me why I am completely wrong.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:08 pm

In terms of the Labour party constitution, what are the options for forcing Corbyn out?

(Genuinely don't know - I've never been a member)

Don't need to force him out, he says he's resigning.

Swinson stepped down immediately. He could do the same.

GeenDienst wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:01 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:08 pm

In terms of the Labour party constitution, what are the options for forcing Corbyn out?

(Genuinely don't know - I've never been a member)

Don't need to force him out, he says he's resigning.

Swinson stepped down immediately. He could do the same.

It's easier for Swinson to step down immediately - she can't do a job in the Commons next week, and she'd not be expected to play a major role in PM's Questions, or to swear in as Leader of HM Loyal Opposition even if she was still in the Commons.