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Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:18 pm
by Gfamily
Hmmm, this definitely looks like mud slinging to me

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ong-bailey

Starmer team raises questions about a RLB mailing that seems to have linked to a Labour Party contacts list
Starmer team then reported to the ICO for 'scraping' party member details.

The second part is the part that's reported to the BBC.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:31 pm
by Woodchopper
Lord Ashcroft polling and focus groups on why Labour lost
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2020/02/d ... he-coffee/

Of course he is a Tory. But his polling is usually considered to be methodologically sound, and if he's sensible Ashcroft will want to know the actual reasons why Labour lost. So I'm inclined to take it seriously.

No surprises when reading it. Lots of people who had thought of themselves as being working class lifelong Labour supporters voted Tory. Brexit was an issue, but there were many others. People felt that the party wasn't focused upon people like them and instead was fixated upon causes that they were not interested in (but were popular with students and middle class radicals).

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:19 pm
by TopBadger
RLB has a four point plan to turn around the fortunes of the labour party
  • Get myself elected as leader
  • Get my mate elected as deputy
  • Carry on doing the same stuff as before
  • Win the next GE
Genius when you look at it... Ok, so that might not be her plan, but then:
  • Empowering members
  • A democratic revolution that boosts trade union membership
  • Scrapping the House of Lords,
  • Creating a green industrial revolution
Doesn't seem like that much better a list.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:30 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Yeah, it's total b.llsh.t.

They kind of need to focus on the main stuff:

Health
Education
Security

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pm
by Woodchopper
Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
I fear that might become a very boring publication.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:12 pm
by Woodchopper
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:30 pm
Yeah, it's total b.llsh.t.

They kind of need to focus on the main stuff:

Health
Education
Security
And jobs

While not raising taxes paid by people who vote Labour

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:11 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pm
Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
I fear that might become a very boring publication.
Ooof - openly printing your own news is not a good look.

You're supposed to do it sneakily, via backroom deals and shared class interests.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:13 pm
by Herainestold
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:11 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:11 pm
Just days ago, the deputy leadership candidate Richard Burgon, who also has the backing of McDonnell, suggested the party should print a free Labour newspaper to bypass traditional media.
I fear that might become a very boring publication.
Ooof - openly printing your own news is not a good look.

You're supposed to do it sneakily, via backroom deals and shared class interests.
Yes. Do you want power or do you want to play around the margins?

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 am
by cvb
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... axes-study

I don't know what to think about this.

One bit in particualr.
Manifesto promises of higher taxes for millionaires and billionaires that made up a bulk of Labour’s messaging during the 2019 general election went down particularly badly. Many of those surveyed said they thought they deserved their wealth.

One woman interviewed in Wrexham said: “If you have worked hard you are entitled to it.”
I think Labour is finished if this is the general feeling of the public.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:27 am
by Woodchopper
cvb wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:15 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... axes-study

I don't know what to think about this.

One bit in particualr.
Manifesto promises of higher taxes for millionaires and billionaires that made up a bulk of Labour’s messaging during the 2019 general election went down particularly badly. Many of those surveyed said they thought they deserved their wealth.

One woman interviewed in Wrexham said: “If you have worked hard you are entitled to it.”
I think Labour is finished if this is the general feeling of the public.
That’s been the general view of the public for decades. When Labour politicians talk about higher taxes ordinary people assume that in the end they will be the ones to pay them.

Labour isn’t finished. But it needs a leadership that is able to persuade the electorate that it’s going to benefit from a Labour government.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:00 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Every single time there's an election where one party does really well, and another badly, there's always talk of "is X finished"? Sometimes, this happens before the election itself - there were various bits of talk around whether the US republicans were finished in advance of the 2016 election where they got control of all three institutions.

That talk happened after the 1997 election, and was renewed after 2001. It is very, very rarely the case.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:26 pm
by jimbob
Good to see Richard Burgeon has identified Labour's problem. It wasn't Corbyn's leadership or his squandering resources on safe Tory seats. It was outrageous Labour MPs who didn't back Corbyn.

I suppose Corbyn was entitled to the loyalty that he demonstrated as a backbencher.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:31 am
by JQH
I don't recall him actually discouraging people from voting Labour though.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 am
by El Pollo Diablo
Oh god the burgon rapid fire b.llsh.t just keeps coming

https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusiv ... education/
Deputy leadership hopeful Richard Burgon wants to set up a ‘Tony Benn University of Political Education’, LabourList can reveal, because he says Labour has “failed miserably in relation to political education in the last few years”.
The suggestion is just one of a selection of party reform ideas being put forward by the frontbencher. He also wants to see ‘justice twinning’ of local parties, a “proper Labour Party podcast” and a “decent Labour Party YouTube channel”.
Burgon also ... implicitly criticised rival Angela Rayner’s claims of a “toxic culture” in the party

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:06 am
by JQH
"Tony Benn University of Political Education" sounds suspiciously like "Re-Education Camp". And I'm a lefty. f.ck knows how it sounds to floating voters, never mind Tories.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:27 am
by snoozeofreason
That's going to erode some of the proudest traditions of British journalism. In days gone by a Daily Mail writer would be expected to be capable of making up stuff like the Tony Benn University of Political Education. How will they learn to do that if Burgon keeps getting there first?

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:49 pm
by jimbob
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 am
Oh god the burgon rapid fire b.llsh.t just keeps coming

https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusiv ... education/
Deputy leadership hopeful Richard Burgon wants to set up a ‘Tony Benn University of Political Education’, LabourList can reveal, because he says Labour has “failed miserably in relation to political education in the last few years”.
The suggestion is just one of a selection of party reform ideas being put forward by the frontbencher. He also wants to see ‘justice twinning’ of local parties, a “proper Labour Party podcast” and a “decent Labour Party YouTube channel”.
Burgon also ... implicitly criticised rival Angela Rayner’s claims of a “toxic culture” in the party
He truly is of a calibre to debate with cabinet ministers at their own intellectual level.

I'm still trying to work out for whom I should vote for deputy. I've eliminated several. Pity Jess Philips isn't standing.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 am
by El Pollo Diablo
For me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:43 pm
by Bird on a Fire
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 am
For me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
Not sure about Scotland - the last Indyref was very close, and that was before Brexit and without considering demographic turnover. I really think it's quite likely that Scotland will become an irrelevance to UK elections in the near future.

Labour needs to figure out how to win over the working classes again - that ought to be their raison d'etre. The labour movement sensu lato is in a parlous state in the UK, and is going to be needed more in the next few years of Brexshitting than at any time since Thatcher, I suspect.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Unfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:23 pm
by Bird on a Fire
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pm
Unfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
Spoken like a true, out-of-touch metropolitan elite.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:47 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Hey. I'm not metropolitan.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:11 pm
by Trinucleus
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:01 pm
Unfortunately the main way to win over the working classes is to promote racism, tits and coal.
Don't forget the whippets

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:00 pm
by jimbob
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:48 am
For me, Rosena Allin-Khan and Ian Murray are the top two. RAK because she appears to know how to market labour well, and Murray because Labour needs to start doing well in Scotland again.
Yes, those were the two I was thinking - just haven't worked out which would be better.

I see that the Long Bailey cultists are out on Twitter.

Corbyn was highly effective and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on a PM than anyone else. That was in response to my observation that he had managed to lose to Theresa May.

Re: After Corbyn

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:59 pm
by Herainestold
jimbob wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:00 pm
Corbyn was highly effective and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on a PM than anyone else. That was in response to my observation that he had managed to lose to Theresa May.
True.