Is Jeremy Corbyn rubbish or not? - split from After Corbyn thread

[GeenDienst]

I think it's OK to be a tad ticked off with those who led us here.

Right, so we were led here by the Left.

To paraphrase Feynman "I think that's kind of nutty"

Except I didn't say that. We were led here by those who insisted that the Labour Party was led by someone that everybody knew was essentially loathed by the broader electorate. We knew that from 2017, when Labour candidates were assuring voters that it's OK to vote Labour because Corbyn couldn't possibly be PM. Every piece of polling since has supported the essential unelectability of Corbyn (note the "worst ratings ever for an opposition leader" part). And here we are.

How do you think it's going?

[Bird on a Fire]

Corbyn has at least shifted politics to the left in some ways. Johnson has dropped austerity and made promises to almost reverse some of the cuts.

[discovolante]

Corbyn has at least shifted politics to the left in some ways. Johnson has dropped austerity and made promises to almost reverse some of the cuts.

Yes that's a fair point. What he's offered has been pretty pathetic, mind, and a lot of it is fibs anyway. But if they get a massive majority it's erm, a missed opportunity.

[GeenDienst]

I expect we'll see selective austerity now. Protection for pensioners and other Tory demographics.

[Bird on a Fire]

Jimmy Carr suggests triple locking the NHS budget. That should play well with the auld c.nts.

[Herainestold]

Except I didn't say that. We were led here by those who insisted that the Labour Party was led by someone that everybody knew was essentially loathed by the broader electorate. We knew that from 2017, when Labour candidates were assuring voters that it's OK to vote Labour because Corbyn couldn't possibly be PM. Every piece of polling since has supported the essential unelectability of Corbyn (note the "worst ratings ever for an opposition leader" part). And here we are.

After the last election Corbyn was seen as the new Messiah, a good campaigner and a decent man in away in which almost no politicians are regarded.
What happened between then and now, I ask you that.

[Grumble]

Except I didn't say that. We were led here by those who insisted that the Labour Party was led by someone that everybody knew was essentially loathed by the broader electorate. We knew that from 2017, when Labour candidates were assuring voters that it's OK to vote Labour because Corbyn couldn't possibly be PM. Every piece of polling since has supported the essential unelectability of Corbyn (note the "worst ratings ever for an opposition leader" part). And here we are.

After the last election Corbyn was seen as the new Messiah, a good campaigner and a decent man in away in which almost no politicians are regarded.
What happened between then and now, I ask you that.

He was let off the leash

[JQH]

Corbyn has at least shifted politics to the left in some ways. Johnson has dropped austerity and made promises to almost reverse some of the cuts.

Promises which he will now forget.

[EACLucifer]

I would just really appreciate it if, from time to time, debates of Corbyn's failings could address why that's important in the grand scheme of things.

I did. On the old forum. Repeatedly.

And you f.cking ignored it.

As for how bad things are...yeah. That's why we needed a labour leader running the labour party, not some fringe a..eh.le and a pack of entryists more concerned with keeping their hold on the party they had hijacked than doing anything to actually get elected.

Not someone who had always opposed the EU when there was a referendum due.

That was pointed out to you. It wasn't just sneers. So stop pretending it was. Stop pretending having his flaws laid out would have changed your mind, because they were laid out.

It was obvious what Corbyn was before and during the leadership election, and ever since. People who supported him anyway have no f.cking excuse.

Because Yvette Cooper was apparently not left wing enough for some people, we've ended up with Brexit and Boris Johnson.

[Martin Y]

Corbyn has at least shifted politics to the left in some ways. Johnson has dropped austerity and made promises to almost reverse some of the cuts.

Promises which he will now forget.

By coincidence yesterday I heard a RHLSTP with Simon Evans (probably *best* known as the token Tory on The News Quiz) and, although it was recorded in September, he said something timely: that it was a pity Boris didn't get the job in 2016 instead of May. He was, said Evans, quite a bit to the left of May, wouldn't have drawn red lines where she did, might have let freedom of movement continue and would thereby have got a better deal quicker. He acknowledged that Boris would say and do anything to get power but <shrug> he's got it now.

So if there's a tiny glimmer of light it's that the big Tory majority has someone from the left of that party in charge and not the right.

[Martin Y]

Somehow I wandered off without making my specific point above: it's not clear that Corbyn had any influence in moving Tory policy to the left; Johnson is already on the Tory left.

[noggins]

Johnson isnt on the "left", he just has no principles, and so if going leftwards benefits him, he will.

[lpm]

Exactly, he's not left or right, he's populist. He has zero political beliefs, zero ambitions for the country.

His winning coalition is built on racism and xenophobia, with a huge dollop of silly patriotism, which means in effect his populist approach is best seen as a far-right attitude. But it's also built on bribes to voters, so his populist approach is in effect simultaneously a left-wing attitude.

Expect things like giving the NHS loads of cash (and not it privatising in the slightest), while barring foreign-born residents from using the NHS. And giving generous tax cuts to the working poor, while slashing benefits to the jobless poor.

[GeenDienst]

Exactly, he's not left or right, he's populist. He has zero political beliefs, zero ambitions for the country.

He's beholden to the aged, racist, fascist, cuntasticacious Tory membership for his position. So that's the position he'll take.

[Martin Y]

Exactly, he's not left or right, he's populist. He has zero political beliefs, zero ambitions for the country.

He's beholden to the aged, racist, fascist, cuntasticacious Tory membership for his position. So that's the position he'll take.

He had to pander to the base wishes of that base to get the job, but he's got it now so f.ck 'em.

[lpm]

His first action this morning will be to sexually harass a secretary. His second will be to sit down and write out his campaign for 2024.

Seriously. He is only now focused on winning again, so he'll figure out the 2024 position and work backwards to determine what to do now.

For example, he's probably going to run in 2024 as the hero of the NHS and the man who cut your taxes.

He owes nobody (except the Farage peerage) and is untouchable. He doesn't need the membership, the MPs or the cabinet.

[El Pollo Diablo]

Exactly. The membership are irrelevant now, and given his victory would fully back him even if somehow a leadership vote did happen.

He's negotiated a brexit deal all of us said wouldn't get done, and won a stonking election victory few of us thought likely when he took the helm in July. That's a lot of f.ck yous he can deal out when he needs to.

It'll be interesting to see who of his party enemies gets tied up and thrown in the canal, possibly metaphorically speaking.

[GeenDienst]

The membership are only irrelevant for as long as it doesn't go tits up.

Anyway, we probably need another split off along the lines of "Johnson, what a c.nt".

[jimbob]

His first action this morning will be to sexually harass a secretary. His second will be to sit down and write out his campaign for 2024.

Seriously. He is only now focused on winning again, so he'll figure out the 2024 position and work backwards to determine what to do now.

For example, he's probably going to run in 2024 as the hero of the NHS and the man who cut your taxes.

He owes nobody (except the Farage peerage) and is untouchable. He doesn't need the membership, the MPs or the cabinet.

Yes,

He's lazy about everything except personal ambition.

[noggins]

To mangle Rochefoucauld, Johnson's vices are his virtues.

[dyqik]

His first action this morning will be to sexually harass a secretary. His second will be to sit down and write out his campaign for 2024.

Seriously. He is only now focused on winning again, so he'll figure out the 2024 position and work backwards to determine what to do now.

For example, he's probably going to run in 2024 as the hero of the NHS and the man who cut your taxes.

He owes nobody (except the Farage peerage) and is untouchable. He doesn't need the membership, the MPs or the cabinet.

The giveaways mentioned above will mostly wait until the run up to the 2024 election. Jam tomorrow, if you vote for him.

[GeenDienst]

Freedland laying down just why Corbyn is a c.nt.

This problem did not wait until the election to reveal itself. The polling data was clear and voluminous on this point long before the election. Corbyn is the most unpopular opposition leader since records began. And though we may not like it, we know that voters’ assessment of the party leaders plays a huge part in their decision.

Labour knew it and Corbyn knew it. Those appalling numbers were not state secrets. His admirers always describe him as a selfless, almost saintly man, devoid of ego. So why didn’t he take one look at his own ratings and say, “I am clearly a drag on this party’s prospects. Those who need a Labour government have a better chance of getting one if I step aside.” Not a chance.

Corbyn’s own vanity was too great for him even to consider such an act of self-sacrifice. Instead he was encouraged by his own devoted legions of supporters, for whom the idea of a change of leader was heresy. In their mind, it was better to lose under Corbyn than to have a shot at winning with someone – anyone – else.

Perhaps it was too much to ask that he make way for a candidate less sure to repel the electorate. But he made this a presidential campaign, his face everywhere, other Labour heavyweights banished from the airwaves. In their place were factionally approved nodding dogs such as Richard Burgon. Never mind that they were bound to be useless, what mattered was that they were loyal to the ruling clique.

[EACLucifer]

Freedland "So why didn’t he take one look at his own ratings and say, “I am clearly a drag on this party’s prospects. Those who need a Labour government have a better chance of getting one if I step aside.”"

Because it isn't going to be people like him, Diane Abbot, John McDonnel, Owen Jones or that terrorist praising Stalinist Seumas Milne who are going to suffer from a Tory government. They might like to use the working classes as a talking point, but if they gave a sh.t about them, they'd have actually tried to appeal to the electorate, and put more effort into fighting the Tories than into driving out those within the party who might undermine their death grip on control.

[jimbob]

Freedland "So why didn’t he take one look at his own ratings and say, “I am clearly a drag on this party’s prospects. Those who need a Labour government have a better chance of getting one if I step aside.”"

Because it isn't going to be people like him, Diane Abbot, John McDonnel, Owen Jones or that terrorist praising Stalinist Seumas Milne who are going to suffer from a Tory government. They might like to use the working classes as a talking point, but if they gave a sh.t about them, they'd have actually tried to appeal to the electorate, and put more effort into fighting the Tories than into driving out those within the party who might undermine their death grip on control.

It's a game to them, like 6th form politics.

Milne especially.

[GeenDienst]

I see the 4 Ms have done their reflecting and decided it was all definitely Starmer's fault.

Nowt to do with me guv, I was somewhere else respecting democracy.