Is Jeremy Corbyn rubbish or not? - split from After Corbyn thread

[GeenDienst]

Corbyn didn't "sit down" with them. He and Abbott, for starters supported them.

[JQH]

Got a link for that?

[JQH]

Even if Corbyn was replaced by someone less rubbish in the eyes of the liberals here, if that person made similar proposals to address the structural problems of modern capitalism s/he would still be rubbished by the tabloid press and we would be told s/he made Labour unelectable.

Frankly I find it a bit of a problem that the only Governments and Opposition we're allowed to have has to meet with the approval of the billionaire class.

[lpm]

But Corbyn's manifesto does not address the structural problems of modern capitalism.

It's just a muddle of bribes to every section of the population (except children in poverty), plus confused thinking that led them to believe nationalising something will fundamentally change that something.

[Martin Y]

This is my first election as a Facebook user. Maybe last too, frankly.

Anyway, among the stuff flooding it today I was presented with a talking head video of a middle aged man, ex Irish guards. Having described his nail bomb injuries, he declared that Jeremy Corbyn would not condemn the people who did it.

Now it doesn't matter what we here think about that claim or about its moral equivalence or about how condemning all acts of violence ought to be enough. A proportion of voters will not vote for a party leader they believe avoids condemning IRA terrorist attacks. So that's that and you can do something about it or not.

[Herainestold]

If he loses he is rubbish, if he wins he is a hero. It could still work out.
If only certain people behind the media didnt hate him so.

[Martin Y]

If only certain people behind the media didnt hate him so.

Let's assume that isn't going to change.

The mean stuff they say about him gains traction with voters, so it's a problem. The red demon eyes they painted on Tony Blair didn't and just got laughed off.

[lpm]

If he loses he is rubbish, if he wins he is a hero.

Obviously. The whole point is to win.

But this isn't Michael Foot up against Falklands-victor Thatcher, the Man City of 1983, where losing was almost inevitable. Could even Tony Blair, the Liverpool of winning elections, have defeated Thatcher in 1983?

This is up against the most incompetent government in decades. Corbyn is losing to f.cking Runcorn Town. If he manages to hold them to a draw tomorrow I'll be ecstatic, but I'm not going to be declaring him a wonderful political winner.

[murmur]

Anyway, and without wishing to repeat too much of what I have said previously about yer man and his ilk, I'm not seeing anything, aside from, to over-simplify, "Yeahbut Johnson is worse!", to suggest that Corbyn isn't a bit useless at best.

I think that he has some genuinely sensible political proposals to address inequality in Britain.

I also think that an openly socialist voice in British politics is a good thing, to remind people of the structural causes of that inequality rather than just proposing post-hoc measures to try to paper over them while leaving the underlying systems intact.

I agree with you. I like much of the manifesto, and having a socialist voice is good, too.

But he's still a useless prick.

Ken McK said a long time ago that he'd quite like someone who manages to be both a strong socialist voice and a good leader. I agree with him. Corbyn is a shite leader, and unforch that's the kicker for most people.

What EPD said.

[jimbob]

This is the "ambiguous" mural, that Corbyn liked in 2012.

Yeah, I've seen it before. When I first saw it I just thought it was a bunch of rich folks gambling while breaking the backs of the poor - standard class struggle stuff. I understand that on closer inspection it has some antisemitic dogwhistles* in it, but at the speed people scroll through facebook I don't think a like confirms that Corbyn cottoned onto them and wanted to express his approval in public; I think it far more likely that he didn't notice, like I didn't.

*according to the article, those dogwhistles are big noses (a common feature of cartoon-style drawing), one of the blokes has a full beard (not limited to Jewish people), money (not limited to Jewish people) and the Illuminati triangle thing (not limited to antisemitic conspiracy theories). The artist may have had vile intentions - the quote from them is quite suggestive - but it's really not that in-your-face at first glance IMHO.

To me, it seems obvious - maybe I saw a lot of such cartoons in school history lessons.

[jimbob]

If he loses he is rubbish, if he wins he is a hero.

Obviously. The whole point is to win.

But this isn't Michael Foot up against Falklands-victor Thatcher, the Man City of 1983, where losing was almost inevitable. Could even Tony Blair, the Liverpool of winning elections, have defeated Thatcher in 1983?

This is up against the most incompetent government in decades. Corbyn is losing to f.cking Runcorn Town. If he manages to hold them to a draw tomorrow I'll be ecstatic, but I'm not going to be declaring him a wonderful political winner.

That's my view. Runcorn Town second team, after they've scored several own goals (every time Rees Mogg opens his mouth, for example)

[Gfamily]

Town or Linnets?

[Herainestold]

To me, it seems obvious - maybe I saw a lot of such cartoons in school history lessons.

Sometimes the truth is ugly.

[Woodchopper]

To me, it seems obvious - maybe I saw a lot of such cartoons in school history lessons.

Sometimes the truth is ugly.

What do you mean by that?

[GeenDienst]

...Could even Tony Blair, the Liverpool of winning elections...

The lefties would say that Blair is Revie's Leeds.

[noggins]

Corbyn is doing a brilliant job.


Assuming he is a deep cover tory agent.

[lpm]

But vote Labour anyway, in all Lab-Con seats!

Except if you live in Islington North.

[jimbob]

Well, I think we know the answer now.

And he had a simple opportunity to put himself in a far better position.

After the proroguation of Parliament, Corbyn could have backed the second referendum, forcing Johnson to look more impotent, and after the result, the other parties could have then allowed an election

[GeenDienst]

Well, I think we know the answer now.

And he had a simple opportunity to put himself in a far better position.

After the proroguation of Parliament, Corbyn could have backed the second referendum, forcing Johnson to look more impotent, and after the result, the other parties could have then allowed an election

Corbyn's a lifelong lexiter and had to be dragged to the stupid, disingenuous position his party ended up in. Nobody believed him, except those who supported him anyway.

And yes, we know the answer now. Then again, we knew it all along.

One more heave, hey, Comrades?

[discovolante]

I hope that before long we can try and find a way to stop arguing with each other and you know, sort stuff out. I mean that fairly sincerely.

[El Pollo Diablo]

Mud-wrestling. There's one way.

[GeenDienst]

I think it's OK to be a tad ticked off with those who led us here.

[discovolante]

I think it's OK to be a tad ticked off with those who led us here.

I'll get back to you on that when I've had a bit more to drink.

[JQH]

Well, I think we know the answer now.

And he had a simple opportunity to put himself in a far better position.

After the proroguation of Parliament, Corbyn could have backed the second referendum, forcing Johnson to look more impotent, and after the result, the other parties could have then allowed an election

Corbyn's a lifelong lexiter and had to be dragged to the stupid, disingenuous position his party ended up in. Nobody believed him, except those who supported him anyway.

And yes, we know the answer now. Then again, we knew it all along.

One more heave, hey, Comrades?

There'll be a lot of heaves once I've finished the whisky.

[Gfamily]

I think it's OK to be a tad ticked off with those who led us here.

Right, so we were led here by the Left.

To paraphrase Feynman "I think that's kind of nutty"