Should Scotland be independent?

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discovolante
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Should Scotland be independent?

Post by discovolante » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:27 am

As a very new resident of Scotland I'm curious as to what you all think - working on the basis that the UK leaves the EU next year.

1) Should Scotland have another independence referendum?
2) How should Scotland vote if there was another referendum?

I might as well nail my colours to the mast now (although rein it in please), I voted SNP in this election. I think I was in a constituency where my vote didn't really matter but I of course wanted to vote so I went down the path of least resistance/antisemitism (that's another thread btw, which is fine but I will split it if people want to discuss it). I'm on the fence about Scottish independence and I'm not necessarily a massive fan of all of the SNP's policies and wonder how the vote would have gone if they didn't exist as a party. Senor von Late* is very much pro independence but I think I would be doing him a disservice if I claimed that was all he was bothered about. It's a decision I will probably only make if I have to and EU membership would be a big factor.


Anyway go ahead with your opinions and stuff if you want.

*can we have a word for cohabitees that is less childish than boyfriend/girlfriend and less pretentious than partner?
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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bolo
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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by bolo » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:37 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:27 am
*can we have a word for cohabitees that is less childish than boyfriend/girlfriend and less pretentious than partner?
Partner doesn't seem at all pretentious to me.

You could always go back to POSSLQ -- coined by the US Census Bureau in the 1970s -- from Person of the Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by secret squirrel » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:18 am

I think it's an insane idea. Not for any deep ideological reason, but logistically it would be an absolute nightmare. I don't understand how someone could watch the absolute shitstorm of Brexit unfold for the last 4 years and fancy another round but worse.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by basementer » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:35 am

bolo wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:37 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:27 am
*can we have a word for cohabitees that is less childish than boyfriend/girlfriend and less pretentious than partner?
Partner doesn't seem at all pretentious to me.
I agree with bolo, it seems like a natural usage.
In the NZ Police recording standard, partner is currently used for couples who say they live together but don't use words like husband, wife, spouse; as distinct from boyfriend/girlfriend which is used for a couple not living together. But this discussion looks deservedly splittable.
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discovolante
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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by discovolante » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:38 am

Less deserving of its own thread than scottish independence though ;) focus man!
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by basementer » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:43 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:38 am
Less deserving of its own thread than scottish independence though ;) focus man!
I'd already reported my own post to the mod team for splittability. Most people don't know that. :)
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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by basementer » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:50 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:38 am
Less deserving of its own thread than scottish independence though ;) focus man!
Personal opinion: I think there's a real chance I'll see the disintegration of the UK in my lifetime, and I think you should be voting for Scottish independence as soon as you can to mitigate the risk.
Money is just a substitute for luck anyway. - Tom Siddell

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by dccarm » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:12 am

I was torn between heart and head last time last time around but narrowly came down in favour of Yes. This time around (and I'm sure it will come) I think it's going to be even harder. We're obviously, as a nation, moving further and further away politically from England so it seems the natural thing to do. But at the same time, while Brexit makes it more likely, it also makes it more difficult. With England out of the EU (and assuming Scotland go back in) we'd now be talking about a hard border between England and Scotland - and we've all seen the complications that's caused in Ireland. And Brexit is going to take 10, 20 years to sort out fully - adding the break up of the UK to that isn't going to help matters.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:59 am

I'll emigrate north and help man the border posts if it will help - so long as I get political asylum with you
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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Lew Dolby » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am

otoh, Scots independence would probs condemn us in England to permanent tory government. So good for Scotland but sh.t for England.
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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by dccarm » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:18 am

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:59 am
I'll emigrate north and help man the border posts if it will help - so long as I get political asylum with you
You're more than welcome. Fill a van with cheap booze on the way up - this minimum pricing is torture.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by GeenDienst » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:21 am

I'm Engerland, so no vote. last time my sympathies were for "No". This time I think "Yes" is a no brainer.

And they should be forthright about the border. Yes, we're f.cking having one.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by JQH » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:28 am

Lew Dolby wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am
otoh, Scots independence would probs condemn us in England to permanent tory government. So good for Scotland but sh.t for England.
Looks like we've got that anyway.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:30 am

dccarm wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:18 am
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:59 am
I'll emigrate north and help man the border posts if it will help - so long as I get political asylum with you
You're more than welcome. Fill a van with cheap booze on the way up - this minimum pricing is torture.
I could rent my sisters house but that would mean living in Dundee :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by JQH » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:31 am

GeenDienst wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:21 am
I'm Engerland, so no vote. last time my sympathies were for "No". This time I think "Yes" is a no brainer.

And they should be forthright about the border. Yes, we're f.cking having one.
Agreed.

But Johnson has already said they're not having another Indyref, so what do they do?

Go down the Sinn Fein route?
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by cvb » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:31 am

Lew Dolby wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:13 am
otoh, Scots independence would probs condemn us in England to permanent tory government. So good for Scotland but sh.t for England.
If the English want their sh.t tory toff betters to piss on them permanently good for them. Stupid c.nts.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:34 am

JQH wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:31 am
GeenDienst wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:21 am
I'm Engerland, so no vote. last time my sympathies were for "No". This time I think "Yes" is a no brainer.

And they should be forthright about the border. Yes, we're f.cking having one.
Agreed.

But Johnson has already said they're not having another Indyref, so what do they do?

Go down the Sinn Fein route?
Remind Betty about how Boris embarrassed her and arrange independence by royal perogative


eta Or go down the route followed by another discontented part of the "country" in 1776
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Martin Y » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:43 am

Mrs Y has instructed me to apply for my Scottish passport at the first opportunity.

It's not something I want to happen but it seems I can't always get what it want. It may become the lesser evil.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:49 am

Kent/Sussex ancestry going back 400 years or more, so I'm well and truly f.cked - unless I apply for a Green Card and go to Trumpton
Change my name to Barney McGrew
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by JQH » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:13 am

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:34 am
JQH wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:31 am
GeenDienst wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:21 am
I'm Engerland, so no vote. last time my sympathies were for "No". This time I think "Yes" is a no brainer.

And they should be forthright about the border. Yes, we're f.cking having one.
Agreed.

But Johnson has already said they're not having another Indyref, so what do they do?

Go down the Sinn Fein route?
Remind Betty about how Boris embarrassed her and arrange independence by royal perogative


eta Or go down the route followed by another discontented part of the "country" in 1776
That's what I was suggesting with my comment about Sinn Fein.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by JQH » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:15 am

My maternal grandfather was born in Scotland. I wonder if that will qualify me for a Scottish passport.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:33 am

The border won't be a problem, as the UK will have figured out how to do frictionless borders by then.

If I were Scottish I'd absolutely be going for it. Future in the EU is so much more hopeful than future in the UK.

And if Boris tries to block the referendum from having happening the obvious source of comparison is Catalonia. I don't think anybody would particularly want that mess on their hands. Boris will go for it then try to blag his way to victory - could be third time lucky.
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Gentleman Jim
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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:05 pm

JQH wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:13 am
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:34 am
JQH wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:31 am


Agreed.

But Johnson has already said they're not having another Indyref, so what do they do?

Go down the Sinn Fein route?
Remind Betty about how Boris embarrassed her and arrange independence by royal perogative


eta Or go down the route followed by another discontented part of the "country" in 1776
That's what I was suggesting with my comment about Sinn Fein.
My bad - I was thinking IRA bombs, not December 1918 election
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by veravista » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:18 pm

Having very recently been to Glasgow and Edinburgh it seemed to me that the Scottish do seem to be more politically aware and active than us Englanders. So I hope they do go for it, full border and everything.

PS Mrs V was actually born in Edinburgh and her mother is very, very Scottish. So passport a breeze for Vista family :)

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Re: Should Scotland be independent?

Post by dccarm » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:43 pm

It was interesting flicking between the BBC coverage in Scotland and England last night - it all just seems so much more calm and civilised up here politically at the moment. I find Scottish Tories are generally bearable, sometimes even likeable - perhaps with the exception of Murdo Fraser. Admittedly the times I did flick to the UK coverage I was subjected to Farage and Francois so that may have swayed my thoughts.

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