Getting Brexit done

[Opti]

... stuff.

Indeed.
Here in Málaga province, at this late stage if you haven't got a well-connected gestor, getting an appointment anywhere, let alone the Foreigners Office you're F'd up the A. See also Empadronamiento.
Then you have to have all your ducks in a line. Good luck with getting official documents posted from the UK. Correos round here are, errrr, erratic.
Yeah, f.ck those tax-evaders. They always moan about how slowly things happen here. That's exactly why we came here.

[Gfamily]

We'll have to work out how we'll manage with our place in France, I won't have a problem because I've got an Irish passport, but MrsG will be subject to the visa requirements.

But as I'll be working through most of 2021 I don't think we'll be able to spend so much time there that it'll be a problem, but who knows what it'll be like in 2022

[Opti]

On the path to rejoining?

[Gfamily]

On the path to rejoining?

Unlikely, but who knows...

[Little waster]

On the path to rejoining?

Or Game of Thrones theme park.

[sTeamTraen]

We'll have to work out how we'll manage with our place in France, I won't have a problem because I've got an Irish passport, but MrsG will be subject to the visa requirements.

For UK tourists there will be no visa requirement to enter France. The UK will be part of the Schengen visa waiver programme, which literally and explicitly means that you don't need a visa.

From 2021 it is likely that UK passports will be stamped on arrival in Schengen, and from late 2022 you will need to apply for an ETIAS visa waiver authorisation, just like going to the US with an ESTA. It will probably cost €7 for 3 years with unlimited entries. But again, and sorry to nerd on about it, it is not a visa. Of course, 99% of people will call it a visa, but those are the same people who refer to passport control as "going through customs". (I had an exchange of messages with Simon Calder, the travel man off the telly, when I suggested that he shouldn't call ETIAS a "visa", and his reply was "I know, but everyone will call it that". Clearly he will never be a true nerd.)

UK citizens will also only be able to spend 90 days out of any 180 in Schengen. This will be a bit of a bummer for the "swallows" (aka "snowbirds" in the US) who spend 4-5 months each winter in Spain or the south of France, but it should be sufficient for most people.

If you move to France to live, your wife can apply for residency as a family member of an EU citizen. It's a standard process and the rules are set out by EU directives. She can work, for example. Her carte de séjour will say that she's married to an EU citizen and will allow her to enter Schengen without getting a visa waiver when the ETIAS system comes in. It just won't allow her full unrestricted FoM (i.e., she will still be subject to the 90-in-180 rule apart from France).

[Gfamily]

We'll have to work out how we'll manage with our place in France, I won't have a problem because I've got an Irish passport, but MrsG will be subject to the visa requirements.

For UK tourists there will be no visa requirement to enter France. The UK will be part of the Schengen visa waiver programme, which literally and explicitly means that you don't need a visa.
Plus lots of useful info

It's the 90/180 days thing that's likely to be the issue if there is one.
We're not planning on taking up residence, and we're looking at beyond our 'working years', but we might want to spend longer than just 3 months at a stretch out there.

It's just a f.cking shitshow

[Bird on a Fire]

They always moan about how slowly things happen here. That's exactly why we came here.

I occasionally have to take a deep breath and remind myself that I normally value the slow pace of life here. Just occasionally it's an enormous pain in the arse that nobody answers phones, nobody answers emails, you have to wait in a long line to make an appointment to come back and wait in another long line (even at the doctor's surgery during a f.cking pandemic!), you have to physically observe everyone doing every step of their job because as soon as you leave the room you might as well not exist, and so on.

I like it though, because I get to be that indolent as well

[Woodchopper]

The excellent Tony Connelly on the lack of progress in the negotiations: https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-co ... l-10-days/

[Woodchopper]

One risk appears to be that Johnson doesn’t take seriously the EU Parliament deadline for ratification by 16 December before the session ends. If Johnson wrongly assumes that they can wait for the text a beyond 16 November then it could be no deal be accident.

[Woodchopper]

More on the lack of preparation
https://news.rha.uk.net/2020/11/06/rha- ... ntent.html

[Bird on a Fire]

Thanks for these links, chops.

I don't really have much to add. I feel like I'm watching a slow motion car crash. But I guess we'll know within a couple of weeks how stupid it'll be.

[FlammableFlower]

Thanks for these links, chops.

I don't really have much to add. I feel like I'm watching a slow motion car crash. But I guess we'll know within a couple of weeks how stupid it'll be.

With the continuum going from "very", through "extremely", to "WTF, how?"

[AMS]

It's probably a good time to be an Irish lorry driver. I know it's more complicated than this, but that's now the only passport that gives the automatic right to work both in the UK and the EU.

[Woodchopper]

Good thread on the internal market bill: https://twitter.com/georgeperetzqc/stat ... 43171?s=21

[Woodchopper]

Thanks for these links, chops.

I don't really have much to add. I feel like I'm watching a slow motion car crash. But I guess we'll know within a couple of weeks how stupid it'll be.

There is still a powerful argument that Johnson will change his positions and go for a deal. If there is massive chaos and job losses the credibility of his government will be destroyed (as it was for the Tories in September 1992 currency crisis). He was elected on the basis that he's get brexit done with his over ready deal.

However, Britain may still drift into no deal due to incompetence and an inability to get anything done before the clock runs out, and Johnson may decide to go for no deal because if he accepts what the EU has offered he'll be denounced as a traitor by the Tory press and the ERG headbangers.

[Bird on a Fire]

I mean there's massive chaos and job losses as a result of his coronavirus policy already, so we can't take for granted that he's both willing and able to avoid that sort of thing

I do think he'd be happy to fudge things in a way he can spin politically, and that most of this hardball posturing is just b.llsh.t. The Tories definitely don't give a f.ck about fish, fishing or fishermen other than as a prop to wave around in the embarrassingly tame media, but definitely would love to deregulate the pants off of everything, so I'd expect a climbdown on fish but little movement on LPF.

[lpm]

It's not just the tame media, it's also the exhausted public. It's the easiest environment to spin in history.

The govt can chuck money at anything from school meals to furloughs to fishing boats. The easiest path is to fold, give generous bribes and spin any little climbdown from the EU.

[sTeamTraen]

There is still a powerful argument that Johnson will change his positions and go for a deal. If there is massive chaos and job losses the credibility of his government will be destroyed (as it was for the Tories in September 1992 currency crisis). He was elected on the basis that he's get brexit done with his over ready deal.

Won't he just blame it on COVID? He only needs to convince a small percentage of possible waverers, and hope that not too many of the over-70s die before the next election.

[Little waster]

Ooh that's got to hurt. Another triumph of post-Brexit diplomacy, we are truly striding the international stage like a colossus unchained.

Meanwhile John Redwood removes his tongue from the upper reaches of Trump's rectum just long enough to gravely warn Biden from a supine position of daring to uphold the GFA. No comment as yet from the Biden camp presumably they are still too shaken to respond, to Redwood's massive mandate.

Something something something Special Relationship. Something something something Sixth Form Common Room Anti-Americanism.

[Little waster]

And then to compound it some Ulster Unionist life peer insults the VP-elect.

In his defence Lord Kilclooney went on the internet to tweet using the internet that he had read about the VP on the internet and had been moved to post on the internet a comment about her on the internet. However he couldn’t remember her name so decided on using an inaccurate racist epithet to describe her on the internet. If only there was quick and simple method to look up details about obscure politicians ... possibly involving computers?

In unrelated news, I note that Lord Kilclooney, who I had never even heard until about 30 minutes ago,
has six children, was born in Armagh and is a member of the County Club, because I’m presumably f.cking psychic.

I also note the Lord who’s name I have apparently forgotten so I will just refer to as “That Paddy” has a long history of making racist comments and represented the UUP, a famously bigoted bunch of racist c.nts, for many decades so claims he isn’t a racist look a little hard to support.

[jimbob]

And then to compound it some Ulster Unionist life peer insults the VP-elect.

In his defence Lord Kilclooney went on the internet to tweet using the internet that he had read about the VP on the internet and had been moved to post on the internet a comment about her on the internet. However he couldn’t remember her name so decided on using an inaccurate racist epithet to describe her on the internet. If only there was quick and simple method to look up details about obscure politicians ... possibly involving computers?

In unrelated news, I note that Lord Kilclooney, who I had never even heard until about 30 minutes ago,
has six children, was born in Armagh and is a member of the County Club, because I’m presumably f.cking psychic.

I also note the Lord who’s name I have apparently forgotten so I will just refer to as “That Paddy” has a long history of making racist comments and represented the UUP, a famously bigoted bunch of racist c.nts, for many decades so claims he isn’t a racist look a little hard to support.

It's not even the first time he's called someone "an Indian"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... 1?mode=amp

[Woodchopper]

UK Cabinet rift puts post-Brexit science collaboration at risk
Britain’s association to Horizon Europe hangs by a thread amid costs concerns and opposition from senior Cabinet ministers.

The U.K. could fail to associate to the EU’s Horizon Europe research and development scheme after the Brexit transition period amid opposition from senior ministers.

Negotiations over the U.K.’s participation in the €80 billion program, due to run from 2021 to 2027, are stuck on how much Britain would be asked to pay for association versus how much it would receive.

In a letter to the Cabinet Office’s EU exit strategy committee this week, the U.K.’s chief Brexit negotiator David Frost asked Cabinet ministers whether Britain should push for a two-way correction mechanism in ongoing future relationship talks with the EU, according to government officials.

Such a mechanism was originally put forward by biomedical research charity the Wellcome Trust as a way of ensuring the U.K.’s Horizon Europe participation costs could not significantly exceed the value of the grants British researchers might win from the program. The Wellcome Trust hoped it could offer a fair solution to the U.K.’s cost concerns.

Frost’s letter invited the so-called XS committee — which is chaired by Prime Minister Boris Johnson and includes his five most senior secretaries of state plus the attorney general — to reply with their thoughts in writing by the end of last Friday, according to government officials familiar with its content.

But the request has highlighted deep divisions in the Cabinet over whether the U.K. should join Horizon Europe, with at least one prominent Brexiteer on the committee expressing strong reservations about the U.K.’s association to the EU scheme, the officials said.

Other senior government figures have argued that the annual payments Britain would have to make in exchange for association are heavily front loaded, whereas replacement schemes being developed by U.K. ministers would not be — giving the Treasury more financial headroom while it tackles the COVID-19 crisis.

The government has said it is willing to associate to Horizon Europe as long as the EU scheme provides value-for-money. But U.K. officials warn the debate in London is quickly becoming focused on cash flow and ministers’ views on the EU rather than the merits of association, and that overcoming those reservations might require a good deal of political capital from Johnson.

“It’s crunch time,” an official said. “A push for a two-way mechanism may be better than an outright refusal to participate on cost grounds. I am giving it a 25-50 percent chance. Association is still possible, but will require significant political will from No. 10. This feels like a key frontier in the No. 10 vs HMT [Treasury] war.” Neither Downing Street nor the Treasury commented.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-cabi ... u-at-risk/

[Woodchopper]

The government will reinstate any parts of its international law-breaking Brexit legislation that are removed by the House of Lords, a cabinet minister has vowed.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-gover ... s-12128287

The EU expects them to be withdrawn, as probably will President Biden.

[FlammableFlower]

We're going to end up with the worst of outcomes and the government is just going to blame the EU whilst claiming to have been carrying out the "will of the people".