Getting Brexit done

[Bird on a Fire]

Oh yeah. That gives the UK an extra few weeks then

[Woodchopper]

No sign of a breakthrough. If there is to be a trade treaty we’re into creative fudge territory. Perhaps provisional implementation of some of it, or maybe a special session of the EU Parliament just before New Year, or maybe something else. But it’s not certain they’d work out.

However, all parties are going to have to focus upon no deal preparations from now on.

[bmforre]

... maybe a special session of the EU Parliament just before New Year, or maybe something else. But it’s not certain they’d work out...

You do know that the EU is in grave difficulties with authoritarian regimes in Poland and Hungary so has limited capacity and probably patience to deal with other troublemakers right now?

The EU puts it foot down ...

[Woodchopper]

... maybe a special session of the EU Parliament just before New Year, or maybe something else. But it’s not certain they’d work out...

You do know that the EU is in grave difficulties with authoritarian regimes in Poland and Hungary so has limited capacity and probably patience to deal with other troublemakers right now?

The EU puts it foot down ...

Certainly, the EU has limited capacity to deal with Brexit, and Brexit isn't its top priority.

I'm not optimistic about there being a treaty by 1 January. Though they may be able to avoid some of the worst effects of no-deal.

[Woodchopper]

In a bid to unlock deadlocked talks, Britain offered up a “review clause” on any fishing agreement after three to five years - but Brussels wants it in 10 to 15 years.

And crucially they are demanding the appraisal must be of the whole trade deal, not just fishing - opening the door to a decade more of negotiations.

The UK team are insisting fishing and wider trade agreement must be kept separate as talks go to the wire - but EU sources think they could climb down.

Brits fear reviewing the terms of the deal in the future would give Brussels long-term leverage over them if UK fishing waters are back up for grabs in 2030.

The EU could once more use access to their markets to put the squeeze on No 10 for a greater share of the spoils of Britain’s waters.

Last night fishing industry chiefs urged Boris Johnson to reject the idea out of hand.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13267899/ ... ned-years/

[Bird on a Fire]

It sounds like the UK has fallen for some kind of "British exceptionalism" where they think the EU is bound to want to bend over backwards to get a deal on whatever terms the UK wants.

I did hope for a while that it might merely be political spin on a negotiating strategy, but that seems extremely unlikely now.

[Woodchopper]

It sounds like the UK has fallen for some kind of "British exceptionalism" where they think the EU is bound to want to bend over backwards to get a deal on whatever terms the UK wants.

I did hope for a while that it might merely be political spin on a negotiating strategy, but that seems extremely unlikely now.

Lots of brexiters have wrongly asserted that the EU always caves at he last minute. They'll probably still be waiting for that to happen on 1 January.

[PeteB]

I think this is fundamental misunderstanding. It doesn't matter if we have the same standards /protocols. The uk srops participating in the regulatory "ecosystem", with its provisions for joint market surveillance, supervision, enforcement and dispute settlement. This is what makes the single market work.

I was looking for an explanation of this

Subscribing to common regulation (or mutual recognition) is not sufficient. The crucial additional element is that members commit to the same level and style of market surveillance and enforcement. Furthermore, these processes must have teeth. They must be harmonised under the jurisdiction of Union institutions, subject to direction by the Commission and the European Court of Justice.

And the degree of coordination in some sectors is quite staggering – although almost totally unknown to the general population, and especially to Legatum who suffer from the most profound ignorance on this matter.

By way of example, the UK has produced a 145-page Multi-Annual National Control Plan for food standards and related matters, in which it sets out its enforcement strategy, which provides "the basis for assessment of the effectiveness of performance of UK control systems" by the Commission's Food and Veterinary Office. The role of the EU is to assure that the control systems at national level are effective. Thus, every other Member State has to go through a similar exercise.

Because of this two-tier approach – and only because of the co-existence of the two tiers - it can be assumed that goods produced by enterprises within the Single Market will automatically conform with union regulation. There is, therefore, no need for conformity assessment at the internal borders. Goods can be traded without border checks or other formalities. Freedom of movement across borders is thus bought through subscribing to common regulation and common enforcement (with its handmaiden, common surveillance processes).

[Woodchopper]

It is already 5 past 12.We need a text. Otherwise ratification+democratic scrutiny by #EP will be a farce. The gambling of @BorisJohnson has brought us where we are now. We won't pay the price for that! #Brexit #EU #UK

https://twitter.com/berndlange/status/1 ... 0074664961

In response to a Barnier tweet informing us that talks continue.

[Bird on a Fire]

It is already 5 past 12.We need a text. Otherwise ratification+democratic scrutiny by #EP will be a farce. The gambling of @BorisJohnson has brought us where we are now. We won't pay the price for that! #Brexit #EU #UK

https://twitter.com/berndlange/status/1 ... 0074664961

In response to a Barnier tweet informing us that talks continue.

I notice all the Brexiters in the replies are saying things like "What about the EU's gambling actually" and "Actually Boris Johnson is just respecting the sovereignty of the UK" and stuff. They clearly still think the EU is, and should, cave on stuff it's been clear is inviolable since before the referendum. Lol.

Their refusal to accept reality is going to be passing through MAGA levels of contortion over the next few years.

[plodder]

In a bid to unlock deadlocked talks, Britain offered up a “review clause” on any fishing agreement after three to five years - but Brussels wants it in 10 to 15 years.

And crucially they are demanding the appraisal must be of the whole trade deal, not just fishing - opening the door to a decade more of negotiations.

The UK team are insisting fishing and wider trade agreement must be kept separate as talks go to the wire - but EU sources think they could climb down.

Brits fear reviewing the terms of the deal in the future would give Brussels long-term leverage over them if UK fishing waters are back up for grabs in 2030.

The EU could once more use access to their markets to put the squeeze on No 10 for a greater share of the spoils of Britain’s waters.

Last night fishing industry chiefs urged Boris Johnson to reject the idea out of hand.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13267899/ ... ned-years/

It's fascinating how fishing is getting the headlines, but it's the governance and level playing field issues that are the ones that will have all the impacts.

[Bird on a Fire]

At the last minute, the UK will try a trade: they'll cave on fish, if the EU caves on government and LPF.

lol

[El Pollo Diablo]

i reckon that standard Johnson rules will apply, in which reality is denied up until the sh.t hits the fan and the things that were long predicted to go wrong actually do, and then all of a sudden oh look we've found a new approach and now want to do the thing people had advised us to do this entire time but we've obviously now caused all this damage <waves hand expansively> and through a failure of... well, the absence of any positive personal characteristics whatsoever, we're now in the sh.t.

See also: Covid.

[Woodchopper]

More speculation that this is the week for a deal: https://twitter.com/bbckatyaadler/statu ... 78945?s=21

Problem is that I’ve been reading similar for the last few months.

[Sciolus]

No disputes will occur on day 1, or day 2, or until one party changes something. During that period we will have a pretend "ecosystem" to save everyone's blushes.

There are already disputes where the UK is in breach of various EU directives (e.g. on the environment), which are rumbling through the glacial judicial process.

Presumably under legal convention the UK is subject to whatever law was in force at the time, and so ought to be legally subject to EU mechanisms for those cases for as long as the rumbling lasts. Getting anything enforced afterwards might be tricky though - what if the rUK just says "Nuts to your fine!"?

AIUI, legally, the cases just end on 31 December, but I rather imagine they were an issue for discussion under the level-playing-field part of negotiations and will be an issue in any future talks about the UK-EU relationship.

[Bird on a Fire]

Ah, that's interesting, thanks.

Turns out you can't just guess how international law works

[Sciolus]

Can't you? Bugger, that's all I'm doing. And the government.

[Woodchopper]

There are already disputes where the UK is in breach of various EU directives (e.g. on the environment), which are rumbling through the glacial judicial process.

Presumably under legal convention the UK is subject to whatever law was in force at the time, and so ought to be legally subject to EU mechanisms for those cases for as long as the rumbling lasts. Getting anything enforced afterwards might be tricky though - what if the rUK just says "Nuts to your fine!"?

AIUI, legally, the cases just end on 31 December, but I rather imagine they were an issue for discussion under the level-playing-field part of negotiations and will be an issue in any future talks about the UK-EU relationship.

Lots of info here: https://hsfnotes.com/litigation/2020/01 ... -disputes/

[Woodchopper]

Last-minute Brexit talks to prevent UK-Ireland meat product ban
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1123/11800 ... it-latest/

[bmforre]

Last-minute Brexit talks to prevent UK-Ireland meat product ban
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1123/11800 ... it-latest/

Is this a Vegetarian Complot??

Have French Farmers succeeded in forcing them to buy all meaty food from the EU since their own products must be banned?

Can they eat fish?

[plodder]

M20 at a standstill due to "French trials for post-Brexit procedures".

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone ... el-237992/

[Bird on a Fire]

No gunships necessary.

[bmforre]

Games of struggle and fantasy are quite an industry these days. Are there any good Brexit games on offer? "Release from Field in Kent" ?

I believe Sousa copyright has expired. "Trucks across the Sea" may soon be a March Whose Time has Come.

[Vertigowooyay]

Official document of f.cked-upness.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

[shpalman]

David Davis sends six hours trying to get through to Vodafone customer service

You hold all the cards! Simply walk away. No phone contract is better than a bad phone contract. etc.