Page 45 of 71
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:23 pm
by Bird on a Fire
FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:31 pm
We're going to end up with the worst of outcomes and the government is just going to blame the EU whilst claiming to have been carrying out the "will of the people".
To be fair, a sizeable majority of the people did give them a mandate. It wasn't exactly unpredictable that they'd totally f.ck it up.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:38 am
by Millennie Al
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:23 pm
FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:31 pm
We're going to end up with the worst of outcomes and the government is just going to blame the EU whilst claiming to have been carrying out the "will of the people".
To be fair, a sizeable majority of the people did give them a mandate. It wasn't exactly unpredictable that they'd totally f.ck it up.
The current government were elected because the alternative was Corbyn. That's no a mandate for much. And with regard to Brexit, we know that 48% of people voted against it, so to have a proper mandate for a specific type of Brexit it needs to be one which is acceptable to essentially all Brexiteers.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:41 am
by TimW
The 2019 Tory manifesto said we'd have a free trade agreement with the EU, so that's the only outcome they can claim a mandate for.
Raab got pulled up a while ago for claiming that before the referendum "We made clear - those in the campaign - that we should strive for a good deal but, if that wasn't available, that we should go on and make a success of Brexit," but guess what he just made that up.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:01 am
by plodder
lpm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:12 am
It's not just the tame media, it's also the exhausted public. It's the easiest environment to spin in history.
The govt can chuck money at anything from school meals to furloughs to fishing boats. The easiest path is to fold, give generous bribes and spin any little climbdown from the EU.
yes.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:43 am
by Little waster
TimW wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:41 am
The 2019 Tory manifesto said we'd have a free trade agreement with the EU, so that's the only outcome they can claim a mandate for.
Raab got pulled up a while ago for claiming that before the referendum "We made clear - those in the campaign - that we should strive for a good deal but, if that wasn't available, that we should go on and make a success of Brexit," but guess what he just made that up.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836
Now come come
Mr Raab has since pointed to this appearance on BBC Radio 5 Live, and also to a David Davis speech to the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors where his fellow Leave supporter "talked in detail about it".
See. You shirley remember David Davis's speech to Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors? I'm pretty sure all the TV channels abandoned their scheduled programmes in order to go to it live. I think it was widely greeted as the greatest piece of oratory since MLK.
"
I have a dream"
The worst case scenario is that the UK would revert to trade on a World Trade Organisation basis, with tariffs imposed on our exports into the EU.
Let us leave aside cars and food for the moment. Everything else has relatively small barriers, and these are almost certainly negotiable down to zero.
You don't get much more detailed than that*.
Incidentally "sovereignty" gets mentioned a grand total of 3 times, twice to falsely claim EU membership has removed Parliamentary Sovereignty and that Cameron's renegotiation has failed to restore it. In contrast he bangs on about immigrants for about a third of the entire speech. Just in case anyone is keeping score.
*It is possible he mentions it again later, I imagine it was fairly dismal at the time and it hasn't aged well, so I lost the will to live about the time he mentioned the German car-makers. Certainly he gives paragraph after paragraph explaining how our inevitable deal will be superior then what we have, WTO not so much.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:57 am
by Vertigowooyay
Little waster wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:12 pm
In unrelated news, I note that Lord Kilclooney, who I had never even heard until about 30 minutes ago,
has six children, was born in Armagh and is a member of the County Club, because I’m presumably f.cking psychic.
I also note the Lord who’s name I have apparently forgotten so I will just refer to as “That Paddy” has a long history of making racist comments and represented the UUP, a famously bigoted bunch of racist c.nts, for many decades so claims he isn’t a racist look a little hard to support.
Oh you *do* know him. From right at the end of Return Of The Jedi.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:15 am
by Vertigowooyay
It seems that Claire Fox spoke passionately in defence of the bill yesterday, and then accidentally voted against it.
https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Lords ... t-contents
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:28 am
by Little waster
As an aside would anyone happen to know the accepted Communist position on an unelected House of Lords? Asking for a comrade.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:30 am
by AMS
Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:28 am
As an aside would anyone happen to know the accepted Communist position on an unelected House of Lords? Asking for a comrade.
The general history of communist states shows they were actually pretty ok about unelected ruling bodies.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:39 am
by dyqik
AMS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:30 am
Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:28 am
As an aside would anyone happen to know the accepted Communist position on an unelected House of Lords? Asking for a comrade.
The general history of communist states shows they were actually pretty ok about unelected ruling bodies.
Appointments to a large committee is the basic mode of operation of the Party, I thought.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:53 am
by Little waster
dyqik wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:39 am
AMS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:30 am
Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:28 am
As an aside would anyone happen to know the accepted Communist position on an unelected House of Lords? Asking for a comrade.
The general history of communist states shows they were actually pretty ok about unelected ruling bodies.
Appointments to a large committee is the basic mode of operation of the Party, I thought.
Yeah but they had to at least pretend this was due to some combination of merit, party loyalty and political correct-thinking.
Not just on the basis of watery tarts handing out scimitars to somebodies great-great-great grandfather.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:49 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Exactly. Hereditary peers should all be shipped off to a gulag somewhere, probably taking the bishops with them. Party-appointed peers can stay.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:36 am
by Woodchopper
Mr Johnson has indicated he will bring forward a twin piece of contentious legislation — a finance bill — that would give ministers control over a post-Brexit tariff regime for goods passing from the mainland UK to NI.
The prime minister insists he needs a legal “safety net” in the event that the EU interprets the withdrawal treaty in an “extreme” way that effectively places a hard trade border in the Irish Sea.
But Mr Biden has warned that overriding the delicate Northern Ireland protocol could shift that border to the island of Ireland.
The finance bill, which has to be enacted before the end of the Brexit transition period on December 31, is likely to become the focus of more tension between Downing Street and MPs.
The government wants to ensure that tariffs are only paid on goods travelling from GB to NI “if there is a genuine and substantial risk” of them ending up in the Republic of Ireland. Those “at risk” goods are supposed to be identified by mutual agreement with the EU.
If Mr Johnson agrees a free trade agreement with the EU before the end of the transition period, some of the disagreements will fall away, although Downing Street insisted the prime minister still believed a legal safeguard was needed.
https://www.ft.com/content/8c533029-5e5 ... ef38a4de07
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:41 am
by plodder
some sort of... backstop. hmm.
Did you see that Arlene Foster has written to the EU complaining that Phytosanitary regs might cause problems with food deliveries, so the EU should adopt a softer approach?
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:23 am
by plodder
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:16 pm
by Woodchopper
Lee Cain is out, rumours about Cummings and Frost next.
If Johnson is to go for a deal then he’d want them out first.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:30 pm
by FlammableFlower
Woodchopper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:16 pm
Lee Cain is out, rumours about Cummings and Frost next.
If Johnson is to go for a deal then he’d want them out first.
Johnson is going to start feeling a bit lonely.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:31 am
by Gfamily
A useful thread on the impact for musicians who want to play in Europe
Howard Goodall is very good at this stuff.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Howard_Gooda ... 8256656389
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:06 am
by plodder
Woodchopper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:16 pm
Lee Cain is out, rumours about Cummings and Frost next.
If Johnson is to go for a deal then he’d want them out first.
We know Johnson isn't a zealot - he doesn't appear to have any strong political principles. I think he's probably scared witless of No Deal. He's seen what happened to Cameron's legacy.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:58 am
by Woodchopper
A summit of EU leaders on 19 November is now viewed in Brussels as the final deadline for a draft Brexit deal, with negotiations on Britain’s future trade and security relationship with the bloc set to go to the wire.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other
Seems plausible. Gives a week to get an agreement.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:07 am
by plodder
This is worrying, unless you've invested in lorry park futures.
https://mobile.twitter.com/lisaocarroll ... 6692744192
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:39 am
by TimW
^ We don't need fancy software for trade to NI. Boris is building a bridge!
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:07 am
by Woodchopper
plodder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:06 am
Woodchopper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:16 pm
Lee Cain is out, rumours about Cummings and Frost next.
If Johnson is to go for a deal then he’d want them out first.
We know Johnson isn't a zealot - he doesn't appear to have any strong political principles. I think he's probably scared witless of No Deal. He's seen what happened to Cameron's legacy.
Yes, I expect he is. But I also suspect that he's scared of any deal that the EU would accept. From John Major onwards the brexit zealots in the party and media have made life hell for every Tory Prime Minister. Johnson doesn't want to see his legacy being written as the traitor who sold Britain down the river just weeks before it would liberate its self from the Brussels tyranny.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:47 am
by Martin Y
plodder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:06 am
We know Johnson isn't a zealot - he doesn't
appear to have any
strong political principles. I think he's probably scared witless of No Deal. He's seen what happened to Cameron's legacy.
FTFY.
And yes, since the only thing that matters to Boris is how this makes Boris look then as the train thunders towards the broken bridge he probably needs to get rid of the maniacs who want to go even faster. Not sure who he replaces them with in that analogy. Other nutters who promise they can make a train fly, I suppose.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:17 pm
by Opti
Brit ex-pats here in SW Andalusia are losing their sh.t about restrictions on bringing meat, dairy and other foodstuffs (especially bacon and sausages from Morrisons) into Spain from Gib come 1st Jan. They don't seem to have realised that this was inevitable.
The food available in Spain is amazing, they should try it.
