Getting Brexit done

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:22 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:14 pm
The EU negotiating directives have been published.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... ctives.pdf

It'll be interesting to see what the UK publishes in advance.
Section 1: Cake products, possession of.

Section 2: Cake products, consumption of.

Secrion 3. Prunus avium, selection of.

Section 4: Equus unicornus, border controls using.
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TimW
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TimW » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:05 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:56 pm
TimW wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:31 am
When does the campaign to rejoin the EU start?
That's the second time I've seen that comment today!
Well, Brexit has been done and the referendum result has been honoured. Job done.

So now it's time for a new referendum.

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Gentleman Jim
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gentleman Jim » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:21 pm

The decision to join the EEC was taken by Edward Heath’s government in 1973, but Labour’s manifesto promised a referendum on Britain’s ongoing membership.

The question facing voters was, “Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?” Britons were thus divided into Yes and No camps, as opposed to today’s ‘Leave’ and ‘Remain’.

Younger Tory voters may raise an eyebrow at footage of the then leader of the opposition Margaret Thatcher arguing passionately in favour of Britain remaining in Europe.

Everyone should turn out in this referendum and vote yes, so that the question is over once and for all, we are really in Europe, and ready to go ahead,” she told a television interviewer.
:roll:
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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:29 pm

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:21 pm
The decision to join the EEC was taken by Edward Heath’s government in 1973, but Labour’s manifesto promised a referendum on Britain’s ongoing membership.

The question facing voters was, “Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?” Britons were thus divided into Yes and No camps, as opposed to today’s ‘Leave’ and ‘Remain’.

Younger Tory voters may raise an eyebrow at footage of the then leader of the opposition Margaret Thatcher arguing passionately in favour of Britain remaining in Europe.

Everyone should turn out in this referendum and vote yes, so that the question is over once and for all, we are really in Europe, and ready to go ahead,” she told a television interviewer.
:roll:
If there's one thing the more reactionary parts of Facebook despise just as much as being pro-Europe, it's all these forrins coming over here and owning our stuff. With her pro-European stand and her enthusiasm for selling off the family silver, I wonder if Thatcher's gilding is beginning to peel. I mean, she has a long way to fall to be reviled by her party's members like Tony Blair is by his, but it's interesting to see.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Sciolus » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:23 pm

The the Queens English. Still, Brexiteers aren't racist or semi-literate, are they?

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:45 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:23 pm
The the Queens English. Still, Brexiteers aren't racist or semi-literate, are they?
I was only half watching it but during the QnA after his speech today Johnson was questioned about this and couldn't quite bring himself to condemn it instead he just waffled on about how important it is to learn English before slowly trailing off into silence...

As I said perhaps he did and I just didn't notice. Feel free to track it down on YouTube if you can be bothered. I think it was near the end.
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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:04 pm

Little waster wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:45 pm
Sciolus wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:23 pm
The the Queens English. Still, Brexiteers aren't racist or semi-literate, are they?
I was only half watching it but during the QnA after his speech today Johnson was questioned about this and couldn't quite bring himself to condemn it instead he just waffled on about how important it is to learn English before slowly trailing off into silence...

As I said perhaps he did and I just didn't notice. Feel free to track it down on YouTube if you can be bothered. I think it was near the end.
Here we go from the 1 hour 30 seconds mark. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsNwfEw-ywA

A confused look, a stammered “I ... I .... I ... do” and then another minute of irrelevant waffle.

It was hardly a full-throated defence of and open and tolerant global multicultural Britain. Strange that.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin_B » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:05 am

Martin Y wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:29 pm
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:21 pm
The decision to join the EEC was taken by Edward Heath’s government in 1973, but Labour’s manifesto promised a referendum on Britain’s ongoing membership.

The question facing voters was, “Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?” Britons were thus divided into Yes and No camps, as opposed to today’s ‘Leave’ and ‘Remain’.

Younger Tory voters may raise an eyebrow at footage of the then leader of the opposition Margaret Thatcher arguing passionately in favour of Britain remaining in Europe.

Everyone should turn out in this referendum and vote yes, so that the question is over once and for all, we are really in Europe, and ready to go ahead,” she told a television interviewer.
:roll:
If there's one thing the more reactionary parts of Facebook despise just as much as being pro-Europe, it's all these forrins coming over here and owning our stuff. With her pro-European stand and her enthusiasm for selling off the family silver, I wonder if Thatcher's gilding is beginning to peel. I mean, she has a long way to fall to be reviled by her party's members like Tony Blair is by his, but it's interesting to see.
While Prime Minister Thatcher was also a strong advocate of taking action on climate change, and supporter of the IPCC.

[That she later changed her mind was more as a reaction to the way climate change activism became (to her mind) anti-capitalist/socialist.]
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:23 am

She also did that when she was losing it as she aged.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:45 pm

The biggest operator of ferries in the Irish Sea has confirmed that there will be checks, inspections and some new infrastructure for trade, and it wants to know what the government will pay for.

The plans will affect both trade with the Republic of Ireland and within the UK between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as a result of Brexit.

Stena Line said that its working assumption was that new checks would be carried out in British ports.

Stena boss Ian Hampton told the BBC that though a managed exit was "positive" and the extent of new procedures could be lessened with a strong deal, "there's a border, and the border requires checks".
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51351677

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by noggins » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:39 pm

Why its almost as if leaving the EU had nothing to do with mainstream Conservatism or conservatism and is entirely the work of the loony fringe.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TopBadger » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:10 am

Little waster wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:22 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:14 pm
The EU negotiating directives have been published.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... ctives.pdf

It'll be interesting to see what the UK publishes in advance.
Section 1: Cake products, possession of.

Section 2: Cake products, consumption of.

Secrion 3. Prunus avium, selection of.

Section 4: Equus unicornus, border controls using.
Seems to be missing a section on Volantem Porcos, or perhaps they'll just be peppered throughout the document.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:37 am

Anyone else noticing the narrative that it's just realism that we won't get frictionless trade, because obviously the government cannot seek an arrangement where that's possible.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:56 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-leaders

Hang on just a cotton picking minute, nobody told us this.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sTeamTraen » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:04 am

veravista wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:56 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-leaders

Hang on just a cotton picking minute, nobody told us this.
Isn't that JIT officially f.cked then?

At some point the major international manufacturers are going to have to take decisions. I've been assuming up to now that since closing a big and otherwise efficient factory would be an expensive proposition if it turned out that the UK did maintain close alignment with EU rules, the likes of Nissan and Toyota have been putting off doing anything drastic until now. But the time is approaching when they will have to make concrete plans for how to service both their EU and UK markets.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gfamily » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:16 am

veravista wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:56 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-leaders

Hang on just a cotton picking minute, nobody told us this.
Priceless
However, Gove did seem to distance himself from recent comments by the chancellor, Sajid Javid, that suggested business should stop complaining about future trade barriers as they have known about Brexit since 2016.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by cvb » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:26 am

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:16 am
veravista wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:56 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-leaders

Hang on just a cotton picking minute, nobody told us this.
Priceless
However, Gove did seem to distance himself from recent comments by the chancellor, Sajid Javid, that suggested business should stop complaining about future trade barriers as they have known about Brexit since 2016.
Between the two of them who is the biggest **** scumbag?

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:43 am

So, once again, if you were a major motor manufacturer with two large plants in the UK (say BMW Mini) which relies heavily on cross-border parts supply why would you want a plant outside of the customs control area? BMW don't just assemble Minis here, they also produce components and engines for other BMW plants over Europe at Hams Hall (and probably other manufacturers too). So it would be double hamstrung.

f.cking madness.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am

Pessimist; Just think "unicorns" and it will all be fine
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by plodder » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:02 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:04 am
veravista wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:56 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-leaders

Hang on just a cotton picking minute, nobody told us this.
Isn't that JIT officially f.cked then?

At some point the major international manufacturers are going to have to take decisions. I've been assuming up to now that since closing a big and otherwise efficient factory would be an expensive proposition if it turned out that the UK did maintain close alignment with EU rules, the likes of Nissan and Toyota have been putting off doing anything drastic until now. But the time is approaching when they will have to make concrete plans for how to service both their EU and UK markets.
How do we currently manage JIT with non-EU suppliers?

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:39 am

By and large the large companies don't need to. The mass volume stuff like bulbs, electrical do dahs and the like are brought over from Asia in bulk by 3rd tier suppliers and are cheap to store. They have stock and are constantly topped up. The 3rd party then ships them into the JIT chain. They are paid well by the motor manufacturers to do this.

It's also the reason why a company like BMW will also run at least two separate component suppliers in different countries, so if Hams Hall can't get crankshaft blanks from France due to weather, accidents or strikes it will have another supplier running concurrently somewhere else.

Don't underestimate what lengths a manufacturer will go to to prevent a line stopping. My ex-neighbour was a specialist emergency parts supplier to the motor manufacturing industry. He would, if necessary charter an aircraft to get a few boxes of ECU's from one part of Europe to another, but as long as it was cheaper than stopping the line (£1m an hour ish) he had carte blanche to do whatever he needed.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by dyqik » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:13 pm

plodder wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:02 am
sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:04 am
veravista wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:56 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-leaders

Hang on just a cotton picking minute, nobody told us this.
Isn't that JIT officially f.cked then?

At some point the major international manufacturers are going to have to take decisions. I've been assuming up to now that since closing a big and otherwise efficient factory would be an expensive proposition if it turned out that the UK did maintain close alignment with EU rules, the likes of Nissan and Toyota have been putting off doing anything drastic until now. But the time is approaching when they will have to make concrete plans for how to service both their EU and UK markets.
How do we currently manage JIT with non-EU suppliers?
To simplify what veravista said: by not tightly integrating JIT manufacturing with non-EU suppliers.

plodder
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by plodder » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:16 pm

What data do we have to support this? What proportion etc?

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:58 pm

veravista wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:39 am
By and large the large companies don't need to. The mass volume stuff like bulbs, electrical do dahs and the like are brought over from Asia in bulk by 3rd tier suppliers and are cheap to store. They have stock and are constantly topped up. The 3rd party then ships them into the JIT chain. They are paid well by the motor manufacturers to do this.

It's also the reason why a company like BMW will also run at least two separate component suppliers in different countries, so if Hams Hall can't get crankshaft blanks from France due to weather, accidents or strikes it will have another supplier running concurrently somewhere else.

Don't underestimate what lengths a manufacturer will go to to prevent a line stopping. My ex-neighbour was a specialist emergency parts supplier to the motor manufacturing industry. He would, if necessary charter an aircraft to get a few boxes of ECU's from one part of Europe to another, but as long as it was cheaper than stopping the line (£1m an hour ish) he had carte blanche to do whatever he needed.
Yup, a now-retired colleague was apparently the only person in our multinational to be flown to the US on Concorde to prevent a line stop in a Detroit factory
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:45 pm

Boris: "We could always have a deal like Canada or Australia have with the EU"

Ursula von der Leyen: "Sure, happy to do either, but Canada's deal has stringent "Level-playing field" rules in it (the ones the Tories have been dancing around saying they don't need) and Australia trades with the EU on WTO rules..."

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