Getting Brexit done

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jimbob
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:21 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:00 pm
Today I had to have a conversation with the Italian PhD I hired in which he expressed his fears about Brexit, about his right to stay in the UK and his wish to do so even if he is allowed. Depending on how levels of intolerance go over the next twelve months I might lose a f.cking brilliant member of my team because of c.nts.

I mean, for f.cking f.ck's sake. The fact that I even have to have this conversation is a f.cking outrage.
Of my 20 closest colleagues, I've lost a German back to Germany (still with lur company), a Belgian and an Italian to a competitor in Austria.

All highly competent and qualified with relevant doctorates.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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veravista
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:22 pm

And I find that even 'applying for indefinite leave to remain' sounds a bit up your arse too.

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GeenDienst
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by GeenDienst » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:02 pm

It's certainly indefinite. It's "a" right, when it used to be "the" right.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Gentleman Jim
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gentleman Jim » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:37 am

veravista wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:22 pm
And I find that even 'applying for indefinite leave to remain' sounds a bit up your arse too.
Some of that has already changed - my USAian wife has now got to sit the "English Language" exam*


*Insert jokes here, about how badly English is mangled in US :)
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bmforre
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:52 pm

Taking back control
BORIS Johnson plans to give British judges the power to overturn EU court rulings in his landmark Brexit bill.

The PM has vowed to ensure Britain “take back control of our laws” with lower courts given the power to ditch European Courts of Justice rulings...

He stated: "This is an important change, which will ensure that we do not face a legal bottleneck and inadvertently stay bound by EU rulings for many years.
"We will take back control of our laws and disentangle ourselves from the EU's legal order, as was promised to the British people."
And this he imagines the EU can accept?
They may propose a similar arrangement as the EFTA Court but no way will they allow the UK alone to decide.

F.ex.: If Airbus wings are going to be made in the UK after Brexit there must be supranational oversight on H&S and quality. "Disentanglement" will not be acceptable.

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veravista
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:14 pm

Well, that's Airbus gone - and indeed any company that uses pan EU regulations. Including a lot of GE kit that's made in the UK and no amount of US whining will prevent that. That's got that pesky control back.

bmforre
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:29 pm

veravista wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:14 pm
Well, that's Airbus gone - and indeed any company that uses pan EU regulations. Including a lot of GE kit that's made in the UK and no amount of US whining will prevent that. That's got that pesky control back.
Increasing demand lead to Airbus need to increase production

Boeing Max planes crashed after that planemaker managed to grab control and evade oversight.
Turned out oversight was vitally needed, opportunistic controlgrabbing had deadly results.

Is Boris so clueless that he wants to bully and grab like Boeing top management?
In that case how fast can he wreck UK economy?

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murmur
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by murmur » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:58 am

Is Boris so clueless, you ask?

Yup, grasp of detail has not been his thing all his political life. Grand, sweeping statements, usually alluding to a mythical version of an imperialist past, with vaguely positive overtones (cf my comment about Clodplay and their generic surging) and a large helping of pandering is his normal style.
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk

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Gentleman Jim
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gentleman Jim » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:07 am

In other news, millions of turkeys in England, continue to vote for christmas
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:48 am

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:07 am
In other news, millions of turkeys in England, continue to vote for christmas
Get Xmas done and live happy after?

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:23 pm

bmforre wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:48 am
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:07 am
In other news, millions of turkeys in England, continue to vote for christmas
Get Xmas done and live happy after?
Exactly the turkeys of Britain are sick of the uncertainty and just want Xmas over and only Johnson has an oven-ready package ready to go.

Once it is out of the way then they'll finally be free to embrace all the opportunities presented by having your skin removed, an onion shoved up your arse and stuck in an oven at Gas Mark 4 for 3 hours.

Any suggestion that a secret deal may have already been struck with Bernard Matthews was denied by Johnson stating it was a "bootiful lie".

Bernard Matthews himself crawled through the earth to add his denials claiming:-

"I have no interest in turkeys and wouldn't even touch one if you presented me it on a silver platter covered with thick rich gravy, surrounded by yorkshire puddings, roast potatoes and peas with lashings of golden yellow mustard and slavered in bacon ... sorry what was I saying again?"
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Gfamily
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gfamily » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:29 pm

The turkeys are thinking "how many households in UK, how many vegetarians, how many of us, it's only one day; I'm sure I'll be fine".
Because they've forgotten about all the turkey bakes, and turkey ham, and all the other uses of turkey.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sheldrake » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am

I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin_B » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:35 am

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
No. I'm expecting Brexit to be a disaster, mainly because the people who are trying to implement it have a world view where Britain is still an Imperial power with a robust, world-leading economy who people will flock to trade with, rather than a small service economy with little manufacturing, little agriculture, a reasonable financial base (who can fairly easily move elsewhere) and increasingly little influence on the global stage.
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bjn
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:05 am

Martin_B wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:35 am
sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
No. I'm expecting Brexit to be a disaster, mainly because the people who are trying to implement it have a world view where Britain is still an Imperial power with a robust, world-leading economy who people will flock to trade with, rather than a small service economy with little manufacturing, little agriculture, a reasonable financial base (who can fairly easily move elsewhere) and increasingly little influence on the global stage.
As there is no upvoting on scrutable. I’d just like to second this.

Brexit being an economic or social success makes as much sense as 1+1=3. The reality of the situation makes it impossible.

And nice strawman Shelly.

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Dermot O'Logical
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Dermot O'Logical » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:32 am

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
Well, you're completely mistaken. I would be immensely relieved to find that the result is not the expected decline and the slow exit of business to places which make more economic sense.

We already had the Suez crisis to try to show the world we were still a first class power and demonstrate instead that we weren't. Do we really need to do it again? But they didn't make flagwaving movies about that so nobody now remembers it like they "remember" WW2.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:34 am

It's just so hard to see any potential upside. And so easy to count dozens of potential downsides.
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

PeteB
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by PeteB » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:35 am

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
How will we measure if Brexit is a success ? Arrangements will only change come January 2021 - although I would expect some restructuring of companies that rely on the single market before that (especially services)

I'm not sure the bare bones FTA that has been talked about is actually much better for us than leaving without a deal (although much better for the EU)

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TimW
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TimW » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:15 am

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
That's odd, I would have expected you to be completely sure when telling everybody what they think. What's up? Maybe you're not the real sheldrake.

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 am

lpm wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:34 am
It's just so hard to see any potential upside. And so easy to count dozens of potential downsides.

Come come lpm such pessimism is unbecoming, shall I list all the upsides we’ve already had.

We’ve ...

... had the easiest trade deal in history
... retained all the benefits of the single market
... saved ourselves the £39bn divorce fee.
... signed 40 FTAs by March 2019.
... negotiated better FTAs then we already had.
... joined the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
... resurrected the British Empire 2.0.
... increased investment in the NHS by £350m per week.
... saw the pound surge in value.
... saw economic growth to make North Korea blush.
... strengthened our relationships with our European allies.
... halted immigration overnight
... prevented the 70m Turks now in the EU from coming to Britain ... and all the Iraqis and Syrians too.
... killed off the far right and slashed racist hate crimes at a stroke.
... ensured Scotland will remain part of the UK.
... kept NI an integral part of the UK.
... took a world leadership position in fighting climate change.
... maintained our research funding.
... increased regional infrastructure investment.
... improved the WTO.
... enhanced British Parliamentary sovereignty.
... saved billions in unnecessary no-deal preparations.
... restored pride in the British legal system.
... united the nation once more.
... and so many others.



All exactly as promised. Now with such an impressive record of delivering on their promises you must accept it is just churlish to express scepticism that the Brexiteers won’t continue to maintain their awesome streak of success.
People who use Godwin's Law are worse than Hitler.

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FairySmall
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FairySmall » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:24 am

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
Given that Brexit is now inevitable (and the arguing is just over which flavour), I am more than happy to be proved wrong. In fact I'm hoping for it. Because it's not just my future that's at stake. It's my little girl's, my family's, my friends'. My being right matters nothing in comparison.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:50 am

FairySmall wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:24 am
sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
Given that Brexit is now inevitable (and the arguing is just over which flavour), I am more than happy to be proved wrong. In fact I'm hoping for it. Because it's not just my future that's at stake. It's my little girl's, my family's, my friends'. My being right matters nothing in comparison.
Don’t worry, despite even the most optimistic of predictions saying the Brexit negotiations will drag on till December 2020 (and all the more realistic ones accepting this could take years, unless we crash out with no-deal first) the Queen’s Speech announced that the DExEU will be shut down in January and the phrase “Brexit” removed from all official documents.

Thereby solving all issues to do with Brexit, through some sub-Orwellian shenanigans.

As the Prime Minister said yesterday “just imagine what our country will be like in 10 years”, I for one am filled with optimism.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FlammableFlower » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:19 am

FairySmall wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:24 am
sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
Given that Brexit is now inevitable (and the arguing is just over which flavour), I am more than happy to be proved wrong. In fact I'm hoping for it. Because it's not just my future that's at stake. It's my little girl's, my family's, my friends'. My being right matters nothing in comparison.
I couldn't agree more. Spot on FairySmall. I would much rather be sitting here years down the line saying, "well, I didn't think it'd work out, but it has, so fair play"... the only thing is I'm very pessimistic that that will be the case...
Slartibartfast:
Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day.

Arthur Dent:
And are you?

Slartibartfast:
Ah, no. Well, that's where it all falls down, of course.

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GeenDienst
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by GeenDienst » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:28 am

FairySmall wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:24 am
Given that Brexit is now inevitable (and the arguing is just over which flavour), I am more than happy to be proved wrong. In fact I'm hoping for it. Because it's not just my future that's at stake. It's my little girl's, my family's, my friends'. My being right matters nothing in comparison.
Your litle girl will see the UK back in.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sheldrake » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:52 am

Martin_B wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:35 am
sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
No. I'm expecting Brexit to be a disaster, mainly because the people who are trying to implement it have a world view where Britain is still an Imperial power with a robust, world-leading economy who people will flock to trade with, rather than a small service economy with little manufacturing, little agriculture, a reasonable financial base (who can fairly easily move elsewhere) and increasingly little influence on the global stage.
Nobody who wants to implement Brexit that I've met or seen interviewed believes Britain is still an imperial power. This is honestly a remainer cariacature that doesn't tie up with reality.

The UK is a large economy with low levels of unemployment and a relatively stable and trusted legal system and educational system though.

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