Getting Brexit done

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Blackcountryboy
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Blackcountryboy » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:55 pm

lpm wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:35 pm
The things we used to care about.
Perhaps we should start caring again, the pound is hovering around the 10 year low against the euro.

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dyqik
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by dyqik » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:34 pm

Blackcountryboy wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:55 pm
lpm wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:35 pm
The things we used to care about.
Perhaps we should start caring again, the pound is hovering around the 10 year low against the euro.
Dragged along in the wake of the plummeting Dow Jones.

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JQH
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:40 pm

lpm wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:35 pm
The things we used to care about.
The EU will be able to use its sizable market to drive down the price they pay for treatments or vaccines developed for Covid-19. Unfortunately that won't include the UK and we'll finish up paying more. Unless we develop our own. How is the UK pharma industry these days?
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:47 am

Martin Y wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:42 pm
Yeah, the idea that we had so few problems we had to create self-inflicted ones seems so last decade now.
I’m so glad we spent all our time and energy over the last 3 years playing out the Tories psychodrama on the national stage and the last decade hollowing out our health service for no clear reason*. We can now segue straight into the Plague Times very well-prepared, mentally and socially, to deal with the challenges it presents with our customary calm and rationality.



*can anyone remember when “the Deficit” was a thing? Remember when anybody who tried to suggest it wasn’t that bad or that austerity was the wrong way to tackle a cyclical financial shortfall. I can only assume that the Deficit was quietly defeated at some point in the late 10s.
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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:50 am

Little waster wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:47 am
Martin Y wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:42 pm
Yeah, the idea that we had so few problems we had to create self-inflicted ones seems so last decade now.
I’m so glad we spent all our time and energy over the last 3 years playing out the Tories psychodrama on the national stage and the last decade hollowing out our health service for no clear reason*. We can now segue straight into the Plague Times very well-prepared, mentally and socially, to deal with the challenges it presents with our customary calm and rationality.



*can anyone remember when “the Deficit” was a thing? Remember when anybody who tried to suggest it wasn’t that bad or that austerity was the wrong way to tackle a cyclical financial shortfall was howled down as a Deficit Denier. I can only assume that the Deficit was quietly defeated at some point in the late 10s.
Edit fur-scents.

*Makes note to self to never attempt multi-tasking again it always ends badly*
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Gentleman Jim
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:46 am

JQH wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:40 pm
lpm wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:35 pm
The things we used to care about.
The EU will be able to use its sizable market to drive down the price they pay for treatments or vaccines developed for Covid-19. Unfortunately that won't include the UK and we'll finish up paying more. Unless we develop our own. How is the UK pharma industry these days?
Mostly overseas :(
However -
The UK only makes a small amount of its own vaccines and so is heavily reliant on imports from other countries, when it could have its own institutions working together on new developments. Hence the manufacturing gap.

In light of Brexit and some recent vaccine shortages, the UK is investing in using its own resources to tackle the problem.

Earlier this year, pharmacists were reporting struggling to obtain many common medicines including painkillers and anti-depressants. At the same time the Department of Health had reported that there were 80 medicines in such short supply that it had to pay a premium for them.

There have also been fears that a hard Brexit or a no-deal scenario could lead to a shortage of vaccines and other vital medication in the UK. Most of the commonly used vaccines in the country, such as the HPV vaccine, are imported from overseas, including many EU countries.

The creation of the VMIC is one way that the British Government is working to tackle this issue by boosting domestic production and reducing reliance on European vaccine supplies.
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.c ... facturing/
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lpm
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:25 am

It's not the price that's the problem, it's the rationing. If a factory in Germany starts producing a million vaccinations a day, what day do you think the first lorry load will arrive at Dover?
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Blackcountryboy
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Blackcountryboy » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:25 am
It's not the price that's the problem, it's the rationing. If a factory in Germany starts producing a million vaccinations a day, what day do you think the first lorry load will arrive at Dover?
If they don’t give us fair shares from the start, the Leavers will see that as further evidence leaving was the right thing to do. After all sovereignty/taking back control/blue passports are more important than access to life saving vaccines.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by dyqik » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:44 pm

Blackcountryboy wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:25 am
It's not the price that's the problem, it's the rationing. If a factory in Germany starts producing a million vaccinations a day, what day do you think the first lorry load will arrive at Dover?
If they don’t give us fair shares from the start, the Leavers will see that as further evidence leaving was the right thing to do. After all sovereignty/taking back control/blue passports are more important than access to life saving vaccines.
And if they do give us fair shares from the start, the Leavers will see that as further evidence leaving was the right thing to do. After all sovereignty/taking back control/blue passports have been got without losing access to life saving vaccines.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:45 pm

Blackcountryboy wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:25 am
It's not the price that's the problem, it's the rationing. If a factory in Germany starts producing a million vaccinations a day, what day do you think the first lorry load will arrive at Dover?
If they don’t give us fair shares from the start, the Leavers will see that as further evidence leaving was the right thing to do. After all sovereignty/taking back control/blue passports are more important than access to life saving vaccines.
The demographics of Brexit supporters doesn't play well with Covid-19

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by dyqik » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:12 pm

bjn wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:45 pm
Blackcountryboy wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:25 am
It's not the price that's the problem, it's the rationing. If a factory in Germany starts producing a million vaccinations a day, what day do you think the first lorry load will arrive at Dover?
If they don’t give us fair shares from the start, the Leavers will see that as further evidence leaving was the right thing to do. After all sovereignty/taking back control/blue passports are more important than access to life saving vaccines.
The demographics of Brexit supporters doesn't play well with Covid-19
Not just the age range, but the likelihood of listening to experts and taking the correct precautions.

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lpm
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:23 pm

Ironically he's not brexity, but this is definitely the mindset:
Stanley Johnson, 79, said: "Of course I'll go to a pub if I need to go to a pub." Speaking on ITV's This Morning, he said landlords "don't want people to be not in the pub at all".
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TopBadger » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:25 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:25 am
It's not the price that's the problem, it's the rationing. If a factory in Germany starts producing a million vaccinations a day, what day do you think the first lorry load will arrive at Dover?
Well... if the EU looked after their own first, and assuming we'd be the first country 'in line' outside the EU to get any... around day 450?

But we haven't left yet so... oh no, that's wrong, we have. Bugger.
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Gentleman Jim
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:35 pm

dyqik wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:12 pm
Not just the age range, but the likelihood of listening to experts and taking the correct precautions.
As shown by that twitter post about the Brits* in Spain




*Apologies to those in other parts; I should of course have said "English" as I have no doubts that w.nkers like that almost always are
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bjn
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:02 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:23 pm
Ironically he's not brexity, but this is definitely the mindset:
Stanley Johnson, 79, said: "Of course I'll go to a pub if I need to go to a pub." Speaking on ITV's This Morning, he said landlords "don't want people to be not in the pub at all".
I'm on a paragliding chat group, most of us have said we should stop flying to reduce the case loads on A&E due to possible accidents. One chap is, "until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still fly". Grrrr.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Pucksoppet » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:20 am

Little waster wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:50 am
Little waster wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:47 am
Martin Y wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:42 pm
Yeah, the idea that we had so few problems we had to create self-inflicted ones seems so last decade now.
I’m so glad we spent all our time and energy over the last 3 years playing out the Tories psychodrama on the national stage and the last decade hollowing out our health service for no clear reason*. We can now segue straight into the Plague Times very well-prepared, mentally and socially, to deal with the challenges it presents with our customary calm and rationality.



*can anyone remember when “the Deficit” was a thing? Remember when anybody who tried to suggest it wasn’t that bad or that austerity was the wrong way to tackle a cyclical financial shortfall was howled down as a Deficit Denier. I can only assume that the Deficit was quietly defeated at some point in the late 10s.
Edit fur-scents.

*Makes note to self to never attempt multi-tasking again it always ends badly*
You are not the only one to notice, but the Conservatives had changed their tune long before COVID-19

Flip Chart Fairy Tales [2019-12-02]: Whatever happened to The Debt?

And an article with a comparison with other countries, pre- COVID-19

mainly macro [2019-11-23]: Is Labour’s economic plan credible?

At the moment, the UK government is spraying helicopter money around like a winning F1 driver with a bottle of champagne. While I can't argue that it's a bad idea, I think it could benefit from better targetting. It is easiest to give money to big businesses, but I suspect a lot of people in difficult economic circumstances as a result of COVID-19 will not benefit from 'trickle-down' and need direct help. Now is not the time to be worrying about a small percentage of 'benefit freeloaders'.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gfamily » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:29 am

Pucksoppet wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:20 am
It is easiest to give money to big businesses, but I suspect a lot of people in difficult economic circumstances as a result of COVID-19 will not benefit from 'trickle-down' and need direct help. Now is not the time to be worrying about a small percentage of 'benefit freeloaders'.
Particularly since companies have a duty to their shareholders and not to their employees, so direct support to employees would be better - not least because that money is more likely to go into circulation quicker.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by dyqik » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:08 am

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:29 am
Pucksoppet wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:20 am
It is easiest to give money to big businesses, but I suspect a lot of people in difficult economic circumstances as a result of COVID-19 will not benefit from 'trickle-down' and need direct help. Now is not the time to be worrying about a small percentage of 'benefit freeloaders'.
Particularly since companies have a duty to their shareholders and not to their employees, so direct support to employees would be better - not least because that money is more likely to go into circulation quicker.
That's not how duty to shareholders is required to work. The duty is to protect the company and thus the shareholders' investment, not to pay out dividends before maintaining a healthy workforce that makes the company a viable ongoing concern.

The second part about getting money into circulation is largely correct though, with the caveat that people will only spend money normally if they feel that their job is relatively safe.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:06 pm

Negotiator Barnier has testet positive
So must there now be a pause in the work to get Brexit done in detail?
Or can he work from isolation?

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by greyspoke » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:35 pm

The political and administrative classes do appear to be getting infected at quite a rate. It will be interesting to see if they can come up with a way of doing it without face-to-face meetings. It's not just the big meetings of the big nobs, all the preparatory work would normally have involved meetings, not just of said classes, but of industry and business peeps as well. All of whom will have other things on their minds. Continuing the current transitoin period is the obvious answer. I can't see why a meeting of the European Council has to be face to face, so that could be achieved.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by individualmember » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:10 am

bjn wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:02 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:23 pm
Ironically he's not brexity, but this is definitely the mindset:
Stanley Johnson, 79, said: "Of course I'll go to a pub if I need to go to a pub." Speaking on ITV's This Morning, he said landlords "don't want people to be not in the pub at all".
I'm on a paragliding chat group, most of us have said we should stop flying to reduce the case loads on A&E due to possible accidents. One chap is, "until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still fly". Grrrr.
In my experience of paragliding that ought to be “until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still hang around hilltops cursing about the weather”

(The gaps between satisfying hits were too long to sustain that particular addiction for me)

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bjn
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:14 am

individualmember wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:10 am
bjn wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:02 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:23 pm
Ironically he's not brexity, but this is definitely the mindset:

I'm on a paragliding chat group, most of us have said we should stop flying to reduce the case loads on A&E due to possible accidents. One chap is, "until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still fly". Grrrr.
In my experience of paragliding that ought to be “until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still hang around hilltops cursing about the weather”

(The gaps between satisfying hits were too long to sustain that particular addiction for me)
parawaiting is a zen like skill one needs to learn.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by individualmember » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:17 am

bjn wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:14 am
individualmember wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:10 am
bjn wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:02 pm


I'm on a paragliding chat group, most of us have said we should stop flying to reduce the case loads on A&E due to possible accidents. One chap is, "until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still fly". Grrrr.
In my experience of paragliding that ought to be “until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still hang around hilltops cursing about the weather”

(The gaps between satisfying hits were too long to sustain that particular addiction for me)
parawaiting is a zen like skill one needs to learn.
Undoubtedly.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:12 pm

bjn wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:02 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:23 pm
Ironically he's not brexity, but this is definitely the mindset:
Stanley Johnson, 79, said: "Of course I'll go to a pub if I need to go to a pub." Speaking on ITV's This Morning, he said landlords "don't want people to be not in the pub at all".
I'm on a paragliding chat group, most of us have said we should stop flying to reduce the case loads on A&E due to possible accidents. One chap is, "until there are police going round enforcing curfews I will still fly". Grrrr.
Round here, near Mam Tor, the paragliders usually tend to be quite crowded on Rushup Edge.

Judging by the social media photos from yesterday - they'd need to push their way past bank holiday levels of crowds.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:15 am

It is nice to know in these difficult times that the Cabinet can still find time to take a break from incompetently handling the COVID-19 crises to continue to bungle the Brexit process.

It is so important to keep up your hobbies and not lose yourself in these times.
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