Getting Brexit done

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FredM
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FredM » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:13 am

Gfamily wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:24 pm
Brightonian wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Great Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
The account has now been deleted.
Would make a great sitcom.

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:05 am

FredM wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:13 am
Would make a great sitcom.
Maybe it's deleted because he sold the rights. ;)

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jimbob
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:24 am

https://twitter.com/LeaveHQ/status/1279871372265734147

It looks like a genuine Leave twitter account - but:
1. Any serious examination our #Brexit trade negotiations suggests the UK is playing silly buggers and was never sincere about a deal and we're just going through the motions to pretend we tried. The headbangers have won. So now it's for them to explain what comes next.
9:14 PM · Jul 5, 2020·Twitter Web App
200
Retweets
223
Likes
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
Replying to
@LeaveHQ
2. Joining CPTPP is neither here nor there. We already enjoy "free trade" with 7 of the 11 and the rest are minnows. A US deal won't be comprehensive by contrast with the SM and it's difficult to see how it gets through Congress in this climate.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
3. If you've been paying attention you now know that our customs systems aren't ready and driver accompanied loads need a permit to even approach the ports. No deal very much buggers our EU trade and adds unsustainable customs and red tape overheads.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
4. We're not adopting any of the EU product regulations but in order for us to function at all we'll have to unilaterally recognise them meaning EU goods have no problem getting in but UK goods have a problem getting out.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
5. Now don't get me wrong, there's nothing especially wrong with making ideological political choices, and we've chosen total severance from the EU in every respect, but at this point it's a basic courtesy to let the rest of us know what the plan B is.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
6. You've been able to grunt about "WTO rules" for the last five years, which got you this far, but come January, the fantasy is tested by reality - and with a dysfunctional customs administration, completely unprepared for the task, it'd be helpful if we could have some answers.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
7. It's kind of important now since the Chancellor Sunak appears to be throwing money around like candy. Superficially appealing though it may sound, it's kinda contingent on the UK being able to pay for it by way of making and exporting stuff.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
8. One could very easily conclude that the Tories simply haven't the first idea what they're doing, and haven't even begun to understand the dynamics or the complexity of trade. I've been watching closely for any sign of intelligent life but the trade minister is Liz Truss.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
9. It is perhaps impertinent of me, but might I suggest we leave the Americans to get on with their little mid life crisis and have a debate about this instead since we have less than six months before the sh.t hits the fan?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:21 am

jimbob wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:24 am
https://twitter.com/LeaveHQ/status/1279871372265734147

It looks like a genuine Leave twitter account - but:
1. Any serious examination our #Brexit trade negotiations suggests the UK is playing silly buggers and was never sincere about a deal and we're just going through the motions to pretend we tried. The headbangers have won. So now it's for them to explain what comes next.
9:14 PM · Jul 5, 2020·Twitter Web App
200
Retweets
223
Likes
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
Replying to
@LeaveHQ
2. Joining CPTPP is neither here nor there. We already enjoy "free trade" with 7 of the 11 and the rest are minnows. A US deal won't be comprehensive by contrast with the SM and it's difficult to see how it gets through Congress in this climate.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
3. If you've been paying attention you now know that our customs systems aren't ready and driver accompanied loads need a permit to even approach the ports. No deal very much buggers our EU trade and adds unsustainable customs and red tape overheads.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
4. We're not adopting any of the EU product regulations but in order for us to function at all we'll have to unilaterally recognise them meaning EU goods have no problem getting in but UK goods have a problem getting out.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
5. Now don't get me wrong, there's nothing especially wrong with making ideological political choices, and we've chosen total severance from the EU in every respect, but at this point it's a basic courtesy to let the rest of us know what the plan B is.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
6. You've been able to grunt about "WTO rules" for the last five years, which got you this far, but come January, the fantasy is tested by reality - and with a dysfunctional customs administration, completely unprepared for the task, it'd be helpful if we could have some answers.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
7. It's kind of important now since the Chancellor Sunak appears to be throwing money around like candy. Superficially appealing though it may sound, it's kinda contingent on the UK being able to pay for it by way of making and exporting stuff.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
8. One could very easily conclude that the Tories simply haven't the first idea what they're doing, and haven't even begun to understand the dynamics or the complexity of trade. I've been watching closely for any sign of intelligent life but the trade minister is Liz Truss.
The Leave Alliance
@LeaveHQ
·
10h
9. It is perhaps impertinent of me, but might I suggest we leave the Americans to get on with their little mid life crisis and have a debate about this instead since we have less than six months before the sh.t hits the fan?
TBF Peter J North, who is behind the Leave Alliance HQ twitter account, has been (correctly) declaring Brexit a fiasco since just after the Referendum when it became clear that his 57th variety of Brexit, "Flexcit" wasn't on offer*. IIRC this was apparently the Remoaners fault.

*To which you'd have to wonder, if you've done your Dr Strange act and examinined 14 760 016 future timelines and only discovered one in which Brexit turned out OK, perhaps handing Johnson the Infinity Gauntlet wasn't the brightest idea.
People who use Godwin's Law are worse than Hitler.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by PeteB » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:13 am

Yes, they have been arguing for years for a Brexit where we stay in the single market and were lobbying for such with other leave organisations prior to the referendum - they have a pretty good understanding of how the EU works

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Vertigowooyay » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:50 pm

Not specifically Brexit related, but Mark Francois threatening the UK’s top general is just about the funniest, most pathetic hard man act I’ve seen in a good long while.
Budget Peter Griffin wrote: "Please nip back to the department and ask them to sort their bl..dy selves out because if not Cummings is gonna come down and sort you out his own way and you won't like it"
What a tiny minded, tiny man.

The facial expression response speaks volumes.
7DC86400-907B-433B-A48A-CF2013F99D13.jpeg
7DC86400-907B-433B-A48A-CF2013F99D13.jpeg (13.92 KiB) Viewed 1437 times
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:18 am

PeteB wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:13 am
Yes, they have been arguing for years for a Brexit where we stay in the single market and were lobbying for such with other leave organisations prior to the referendum - they have a pretty good understanding of how the EU works
And they allied themselves with other Leave factions who wanted something different, then seemed surprised when these other Leavers wouldn't shut up and go away.

North & co helped create this mess so they can f.cking own it rather than blame the people who warned him it would be a mess.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:31 am

discovolante wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:54 am
I was just about to post a link to a thread about this as a new topic - although I dunno how many Brexit threads we want, as it covers both EU and devolution/UK constitutional issues what do you reckon to a new thread? You will get the first post of course :P

The thread is here by the way: https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/12 ... 76769?s=20

Edited to correct typo
Good suggestion. Go on then, start a new thread!

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by PeteB » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:33 am

JQH wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:18 am
And they allied themselves with other Leave factions who wanted something different,
They seem to fall out with everyone, and seem to have a very poor opinion of all the other leave organisations.

But they seem to making the same point that Ivan Rogers was

..Of course, it is in the interests of the Prime Minister, but also of both the Right who advocate “no deal”, managed or not, and of the People’s Vote lobby, to demonstrate that all “middle way” options don’t work. And to hope that time plays in their favour.
There is therefore nothing more vicious in British politics right now - and that is really quite a high bar, sadly - than the attacks by the People’s Vote supporters on the proposed Norway + option.
Or the assaults by the European Research Group Right on anyone in their Party who might countenance supporting a permanent Customs Union.
We have this reached the point in what I have previously described as the Brexit Revolution when it is essential for both the revolutionaries and the counter revolutionaries to extirpate any “compromiser”.
That is a pretty common feature of revolutionary politics. It is just that the UK is not very used to revolutionary politics, in which polarisation progressively narrows the space for compromise, and indeed compromise, always a fairly dirty word in UK politics, becomes a term of abuse.
The revolutionaries declare that every version of Brexit bar their own is not truly Brexit.
The People’s Voters declare every soft Brexit version playing on variants of either a Customs Union or a Common Market without the political integration, is an unacceptable compromise, and that only reversal of the referendum result will do. ..

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discovolante
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by discovolante » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:41 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:31 am
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:54 am
I was just about to post a link to a thread about this as a new topic - although I dunno how many Brexit threads we want, as it covers both EU and devolution/UK constitutional issues what do you reckon to a new thread? You will get the first post of course :P

The thread is here by the way: https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/12 ... 76769?s=20

Edited to correct typo
Good suggestion. Go on then, start a new thread!
Done. I was going to make the title a bit more provocative but I've refrained!
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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nekomatic
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by nekomatic » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:13 am

PeteB wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:33 am
But they seem to making the same point that Ivan Rogers was

..Of course, it is in the interests of the Prime Minister, but also of both the Right who advocate “no deal”, managed or not, and of the People’s Vote lobby, to demonstrate that all “middle way” options don’t work. And to hope that time plays in their favour. … The People’s Voters declare every soft Brexit version playing on variants of either a Customs Union or a Common Market without the political integration, is an unacceptable compromise, and that only reversal of the referendum result will do. ..
At the risk of being a tedious People's Vote bore digging up old and long since lost arguments, the problem with this angle (if anyone was tempted to use it as an argument that the People's Vote strategy was wrong) is that unless I'm remembering wrong, by the time it got to these discussions there was no mechanism on offer for making a 'soft Brexit' truly binding on the government - the best that could have been achieved would have been a commitment to put something in the Political Declaration, and I think we've seen in the time since then just how much weight that would have carried.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:32 am

Leaked Liz Truss letter warns that Boris Johnson's Brexit border plans risk smuggling, legal challenge, and global reputational damage
https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked- ... ?r=US&IR=T

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:10 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:32 am
Leaked Liz Truss letter warns that Boris Johnson's Brexit border plans risk smuggling, legal challenge, and global reputational damage
https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked- ... ?r=US&IR=T
Nobody saw that coming...

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Barnier trolls Mark Francois for being a stupid hypocritical idiot (yet again).

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TimW
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TimW » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:57 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:32 am
Leaked Liz Truss letter warns that Boris Johnson's Brexit border plans risk smuggling, legal challenge, and global reputational damage
https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked- ... ?r=US&IR=T
Eau cointreau!
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Michael Gove wrote: The publication of the Border Operating Model is an important step which gives business the certainty and direction they need to prepare for the end of the transition period when the UK becomes an independent trading nation for the first time in nearly 50 years.
No doubt businesses will be overjoyed, with nearly 6 months left for some of this to be implemented.
And there's more, he also wrote:We are committed to working closely with businesses and the border industry to help deliver not just a fully operational border at the end of the transition period, but also the world’s most effective and secure border by 2025.
It's going to be a world-beating border.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:21 pm

TimW wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:57 pm
And there's more, he also wrote:We are committed to working closely with businesses and the border industry to help deliver not just a fully operational border at the end of the transition period, but also the world’s most effective and secure border by 2025.
It's going to be a world-beating border.
It’s ok we’ll just replace all border controls and paperwork with good ol’Common Sense.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:31 am


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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:59 am

veravista wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:31 am
If only somebody had warned them!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... urers-warn
On Tuesday the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, told MPs on the Commons Treasury committee that it would be difficult for economic forecasters now to come up with an accurate forecast due to the coronavirus crisis.

“Given all the uncertainty in our economy I don’t think it would be a particularly accurate or constructive exercise,” he said.
Yeabbbut I doubt any scenario has a global pandemic IMPROVING the economic prospects of the cliff-edge loss of tariff-free trade with 65% of our trading partners
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:42 pm

Various bits of brexit legislation sneaking through under cover of covid.

Two amendments proposed by Labour, one to guarantee the NHS being "off the table" and one to prevent lowering food standards in future trade deals, both defeated by the Tory majority.

Another attempted amendment to give parliament a veto (ie sovereignty) over future deals also voted down, but with a small Tory rebellion.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-22392056

So basically Johnson and allies can decide which bits of the NHS to sell off, and which standards to get rid of, and there'll be nothing anyone can really do to stop them.
THINK BIG AND UPEND THE SYSTEM

#ShowYourStripes

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Aitch
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Aitch » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:30 pm

There are a lot of TV adverts at the moment about preparing and being ready for the great opportunites it will bring.

Presumably so that, when it all goes tits up, the government can dump the blame on industry instead of accepting any responsibility itself...
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:34 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:42 pm

So basically Johnson and allies can decide which bits of the NHS to sell off, and which standards to get rid of, and there'll be nothing anyone can really do to stop them.
This must be that “taking back control” they’ve been promising us since the referendum campaign.
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Sciolus
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Sciolus » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:18 pm

Come on, we all know exactly who they wanted to take back control.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by individualmember » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:12 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:18 pm
Come on, we all know exactly who they wanted to take back control.
Well, yes, take it from the man himself https://youtu.be/eatVzgW5Rog

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:36 pm

individualmember wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:12 pm
Sciolus wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:18 pm
Come on, we all know exactly who they wanted to take back control.
Well, yes, take it from the man himself https://youtu.be/eatVzgW5Rog
Well all I can say thank god Leave won, imagine if Remain had won, we'd have a bunch of Tory MPs trying to sell off the NHS and ignoring the plight of the working class ...



... I bet we'd all have to perform our own eye-tests too. IIRC driving to Barnard Castle to see if you can see the bluebells is the widely accepted method.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by plodder » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:51 am

Last couple of days have had headlines in the Telegraph suggesting No Deal is now the most likely option, with the EU set to take the blame.

Very, very divisive stuff, this.

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