Getting Brexit done

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:41 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
We are harbouring counterrevolutionary thoughts.
We want the revolution to fail.
We will do our worst to try to cause the revolution to fail.
We want what's worst for the people.
We are enemies of the people.
Traitors who should be shot.

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:07 pm

I'd prefer brexit to fail, yes. Mainly because it's a f.cking stupid idea.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:15 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:07 pm
I'd prefer brexit to fail, yes. Mainly because it's a f.cking stupid idea.
On balance I'd rather my kids got decent jobs, pensions, health service etc rather than be right about the decline I believe we're eagerly driving towards.

I have considered "I told you so" and "Well, I didn't vote for it" tee shirts as an emergency income stream.

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:16 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:15 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:07 pm
I'd prefer brexit to fail, yes. Mainly because it's a f.cking stupid idea.
On balance I'd rather my kids got decent jobs, pensions, health service etc rather than be right about the decline I believe we're eagerly driving towards.
So would I. I think the best path to that is for Brexit to be a failure and for us to rejoin the EU at some point down the line.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:03 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:52 am
Martin_B wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:35 am
sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am
I'm fairly sure most of you would actually prefer brexit to be a disaster rather than admitting you were wrong all these years.
No. I'm expecting Brexit to be a disaster, mainly because the people who are trying to implement it have a world view where Britain is still an Imperial power with a robust, world-leading economy who people will flock to trade with, rather than a small service economy with little manufacturing, little agriculture, a reasonable financial base (who can fairly easily move elsewhere) and increasingly little influence on the global stage.
Nobody who wants to implement Brexit that I've met or seen interviewed believes Britain is still an imperial power. This is honestly a remainer cariacature that doesn't tie up with reality.

The UK is a large economy with low levels of unemployment and a relatively stable and trusted legal system and educational system though.
Well, there was that tw.t at Farage's Harrogate meeting who said he wanted to go back to being the British Empire. Then there's the constant banging on about WW2 and Dunkirk - when Britain allegedly "stood alone" but in fact controlled a quarter of the world's resources because Empire.

Unemployment may be low but many jobs are low pay zero hour jobbies.

And the Dear Leader PM has plans for the legal system.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by GeenDienst » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:06 pm

All of the leavers' mood music is that Britain is a great power waiting to be unshackled from the millstone of the EU. To claim that the leaders don't believe that Britain is some sort of great imperial power is dim or disingenuous. Whatever they believe deep in their shrivelled little souls, they have pandered constantly to those who do.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sheldrake » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:13 pm

GeenDienst wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:06 pm
All of the leavers' mood music is that Britain is a great power waiting to be unshackled from the millstone of the EU. To claim that the leaders don't believe that Britain is some sort of great imperial power is dim or disingenuous.
No, this really is in your imagination. Really.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Opti » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:14 pm

English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:20 pm

Opti wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:14 pm
English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.
They are going to get a rude awakening. The imperialist days are long gone and they are not coming back. Britain out of the SM without a functioning WTO will be truly alone, worse than Dunkirk.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:22 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:20 pm
Opti wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:14 pm
English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.
They are going to get a rude awakening. The imperialist days are long gone and they are not coming back. Britain out of the SM without a functioning WTO will be truly alone, worse than Dunkirk.
Preaching to the choir mate.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:27 pm

And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.
Ceterum autem censeo humanitatem esse delendam

#ShowYourStripes

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:29 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:27 pm
And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.
It will be now.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:31 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:29 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:27 pm
And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.
It will be now.
We'll see. A lot of countries still want to maintain a close relationship, at least to the extent that it's in their interest.

The UK (or what remains of it) is certainly going to lose a lot of clout, though. Perhaps not alone, but less important.
Ceterum autem censeo humanitatem esse delendam

#ShowYourStripes

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Opti » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:36 pm

Nationalism is the death of countries. History shows this. Narcissistic preening always ends in tears.

I've run away. I'm scared. So f.cking what. I can't be there, it's not good for my mental health. I'll fight tooth and nail to not have to come back.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:37 pm

Mind you, most of the French troops rescued from Dunkirk sailed directly home again not long after when France fell.

But yes, the "stood alone" stuff is tedious. We were only left standing alone* because having joined forces with our French allies to declare war on Germany in defence of our Polish allies we got beaten and kicked off the continent. We didn't choose to stand alone.

*Alone except for the world's biggest empire plus the Free poles etc, and with our coasts defended only by the world's biggest navy.

OTOH, I think it's unhelpful to accuse Brexiteers of imagining we still have, or could regain, an empire. It's not literally what all but the maddest of them think. But there is a sad lack of perspective in thinking that we can still be some kind of first rate power, perhaps based on our having been, until Brexit, the world's 5th biggest economy. It's like being the 5th biggest planet, when the top 3 are Jupiter-sized and we just emerged from one of them like Venus as was weirdly claimed.
Last edited by Martin Y on Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by GeenDienst » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:44 pm

Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:52 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:31 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:29 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:27 pm
And, of course, Britain wasn't actually truly alone at Dunkirk.
It will be now.
We'll see. A lot of countries still want to maintain a close relationship, at least to the extent that it's in their interest.

The UK (or what remains of it) is certainly going to lose a lot of clout, though. Perhaps not alone, but less important.
Trade will still go on. Expect more British companies to go under due to foreign competition.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:52 pm

GeenDienst wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:44 pm
Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.
Might be a Hong Kong type situation.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Opti » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:56 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:52 pm
GeenDienst wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:44 pm
Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.
Might be a Hong Kong type situation.
How? The arrangements are massively different.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:06 pm

Opti wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:56 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:52 pm
GeenDienst wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:44 pm
Speaking of a tiny beleaguered group beset by ocverwelming forces, what's going to happen with Gibraltar? Spain is going to be permanently assertive/aggressive (delete according to prejudice) once the transition phase is safely out of the way.

They'll never agree to be part of Spain. Maybe they should go independent and rejoin the EU.
Might be a Hong Kong type situation.
How? The arrangements are massively different.
Not part of the EU, abandoned by Britain, Spain asserts what she perceives to be her rights over Spanish sovereign territory, unfairly annexxed by imperialists hundreds of years ago. It could be bl..dy.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sheldrake » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:11 pm

Opti wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:14 pm
English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.
I think you're confusing a wish for independence with supremacism. Not the same thing.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:31 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:11 pm
Opti wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:14 pm
English exceptionalism, that's their mindset. Stems from imperialism. Same sh.t, diff'rent wrapper.
I think you're confusing a wish for independence with supremacism. Not the same thing.
Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sheldrake » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:48 pm

veravista wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.
The US isn't proposing a political union where the laws are written by people we can't vote out of office.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Opti » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:30 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:48 pm
veravista wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.
The US isn't proposing a political union where the laws are written by people we can't vote out of office.
f.ck me sheldrake, that is so, so beneath even you. Have you lost your touch? You can do so much better than this. Insipid.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by dyqik » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:32 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:48 pm
veravista wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Partners with the EU or shackled to the states? Wish for independence? Yeah right.
The US isn't proposing a political union where the laws are written by people we can't vote out of office.
Well, no. Only the very stupid think that anyone at all would offer that.

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