Page 31 of 71
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:26 pm
by Bird on a Fire
I found an article on the BBC covering the UK fisheries situation - it's from May, but it doesn't sound like positions have advanced much since then. The posts above seem to be a fair summary - basically, the UK is looking to change the rules under which foreign-owned fishing quotas operate, but without buying back those quotas.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116
ETA also worth noting that fisheries is a devolved issue, and perhaps predictably it's only in England that the family silver has been flogged to the highest bidder. So yet again the devolved nations like Scotland (which manages most of the UK's quotas, and has invested in fisheries rather than selling quotas off) have their hopes of post-Brexit stability held hostage due to English greed and incompetence.
I really don't see the Union surviving brexit. Give it a decade, max.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:55 pm
by jimbob
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:26 pm
I found an article on the BBC covering the UK fisheries situation - it's from May, but it doesn't sound like positions have advanced much since then. The posts above seem to be a fair summary - basically, the UK is looking to change the rules under which foreign-owned fishing quotas operate, but without buying back those quotas.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116
ETA also worth noting that fisheries is a devolved issue, and perhaps predictably it's only in England that the family silver has been flogged to the highest bidder. So yet again the devolved nations like Scotland (which manages most of the UK's quotas, and has invested in fisheries rather than selling quotas off) have their hopes of post-Brexit stability held hostage due to English greed and incompetence.
I really don't see the Union surviving brexit. Give it a decade, max.
Yes, after the referendum, I was telling my brother that I could understand why the fishermen voted leave, even though it was still harmful to them. He told me how they had sold off the quotas to foreign boats unlike in other EU countries. A colleague of his was dealing with fisheries.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 am
by Millennie Al
individualmember wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:54 pm
I have always struggled to get a grasp on what the UK want done about fisheries.
It seems obvious to me: the UK wants a fair system that is biased in its favour.
So what needs to be resolved is the fact that a lot of non-british owned vessels are fishing with UK quotas which they bought fairly and above board, with a british fishing industry which now thinks it shouldn’t have sold the quota allocations for a quick buck when they did and want them back, basically for free.
It seems to me this is more of an issue of contract law than nationalist politics, but no one seems to talk about it in that way so I guess that I’m missing something.
I think it's a psychological issue. Like buyers' remorse except for sellers.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:10 am
by individualmember
Millennie Al wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:23 am
individualmember wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:54 pm
I have always struggled to get a grasp on what the UK want done about fisheries.
It seems obvious to me: the UK wants a fair system that is biased in its favour.
ISWYDT
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:20 am
by plodder
The union stays together after Brexit, unless you want to unpick the Scottish border.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:54 am
by nekomatic
Yes, many’s the time that a country has decided in principle to leave a larger union of countries, but thought better of it when they realised how much more complicated the border issues were going to be than they first guessed
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:00 am
by Little waster
plodder wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:20 am
The union stays together after Brexit, unless you want to unpick the Scottish border.
I have it on good authority that a frictionless border can be created easily apparently based on the London Congestion Charge, probably using a combination of drones, blockchain and unicorns, which will simultaneously allow the free flow of trade and people while at the same stopping illegal migration and smuggling, without falling foul of the WTO’s Most-Favoured Nation rules.
Which is nice.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:20 am
by sTeamTraen
Government worst-case planning leaked to The Sun.
Includes air drops of food to the Channel Islands. I thought they weren't in the EU anyway?
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:23 am
by Little waster
Don't worry that haunted ventriloquist puppet, Gove, assures us that the government are working "flat out". Presumably if need be they can then escalate that to "propping themselves up on one elbow" or even "sticking one leg out from under the duvet while hiding their head under a pillow".
I mean with their track record of delivery why would you even doubt it?
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:34 am
by sTeamTraen
Little waster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:23 am
Don't worry that haunted ventriloquist puppet, Gove, assures us that the government are working "flat out". Presumably if need be they can then escalate that to "propping themselves up on one elbow" or even "sticking one leg out from under the duvet while hiding their head under a pillow".
I mean with their track record of delivery why would you even doubt it?
It may or may not be interesting that the comments and votes under that article are more than 50% anti-Brexit. The Brexiteers seem to be reduced to "the country is being run by Marxists", which even if you're not a fan of Boris and Dom seems a little harsh.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:36 am
by jdc
Well Michael Gove does like to quote Marxists (Gramsci), go on strike (back when he was a junior reporter), and there was this:
Writing in February 2014, Cavendish described her friend and former Times colleague Michael Gove, now justice secretary, as a ‘revolutionary’ and ‘more Marxist than his enemies’
Pretty sure I once saw a quote from Cameron referring to Gove as a Marxist too, but I can't find that one.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:00 am
by secret squirrel
sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:34 am
It may or may not be interesting that the comments and votes under that article are more than 50% anti-Brexit. The Brexiteers seem to be reduced to
"the country is being run by Marxists", which even if you're not a fan of Boris and Dom seems a little harsh.
Would that it were.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:09 am
by El Pollo Diablo
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:26 pm
I found an article on the BBC covering the UK fisheries situation - it's from May, but it doesn't sound like positions have advanced much since then. The posts above seem to be a fair summary - basically, the UK is looking to change the rules under which foreign-owned fishing quotas operate, but without buying back those quotas.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116
ETA also worth noting that fisheries is a devolved issue, and perhaps predictably it's only in England that the family silver has been flogged to the highest bidder. So yet again the devolved nations like Scotland (which manages most of the UK's quotas, and has invested in fisheries rather than selling quotas off) have their hopes of post-Brexit stability held hostage due to English greed and incompetence.
I really don't see the Union surviving brexit. Give it a decade, max.
Why does Wales have such a small quota? It's a small country but has a pretty big coastline for its size.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:25 am
by Little waster
El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:09 am
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:26 pm
I found an article on the BBC covering the UK fisheries situation - it's from May, but it doesn't sound like positions have advanced much since then. The posts above seem to be a fair summary - basically, the UK is looking to change the rules under which foreign-owned fishing quotas operate, but without buying back those quotas.
https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116
ETA also worth noting that fisheries is a devolved issue, and perhaps predictably it's only in England that the family silver has been flogged to the highest bidder. So yet again the devolved nations like Scotland (which manages most of the UK's quotas, and has invested in fisheries rather than selling quotas off) have their hopes of post-Brexit stability held hostage due to English greed and incompetence.
I really don't see the Union surviving brexit. Give it a decade, max.
Why does Wales have such a small quota? It's a small country but has a pretty big coastline for its size.
As a guess it might be because although it has a big coastline but only of a small sea it has to share with England, Ireland and the Isle of Man, while the Northern part of the Irish Sea is split between Scotland and N. Ireland.
Add to that I've never heard that the Irish Sea has been particularly noted for its fecundity of fish, compared with say the Dogger Bank or the North Atlantic, so it probably wasn't a large pie to begin with.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:30 am
by Lew Dolby
Yep. Irish Sea is more or less fished out. Last time I was in Whitehaven, the only things being landed were whelks that were bagged up and exported to Japan.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:53 am
by Vertigowooyay
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... isory-role
You’re f.cking kidding me, right? Tony f.cking Abbott banging the drum for Brexit?
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:01 am
by Little waster
What better way to underline how we’ve taken back control from unelected foreigners.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:08 am
by lpm
Turns out we don't mind white foreigners who speak English all that much.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:19 pm
by headshot
lpm wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:08 am
Turns out we don't mind
white foreigners
who speak English all that much.
Unless they're Eastern European.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:11 pm
by Squeak
You can have him.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:40 pm
by shpalman
Emily Thornberry is quoted as calling him a
‘Trump-worshipping misogynist’ but that was taken out of context.
What she actually said was "I am disgusted that Boris Johnson thinks this offensive, leering, cantankerous, climate change-denying, Trump-worshipping misogynist is the right person to represent our country overseas."
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:53 pm
by Little waster
shpalman wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:40 pm
Emily Thornberry is quoted as calling him a
‘Trump-worshipping misogynist’ but that was taken out of context.
What she actually said was "I am disgusted that Boris Johnson thinks this offensive, leering, cantankerous, climate change-denying, Trump-worshipping misogynist is the right person to represent our country overseas."
TBF Johnson also thinks offensive, leering, cantankerous, climate change-denying, Trump-worshipping misogynists are the right people to be in his cabinet and look back at him from the mirror every morning.
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:40 pm
by sTeamTraen
Didn't a bunch of Aussie MPs of all parties get into trouble a while back because it was found that they were dual nationals (in some cases with the UK as the other country)? Wiki says Abbott was born in London to a British father and Aussie mother, so presumably for some part of his life he held a UK passport. I wonder how hard you have to close your eyes when you renounce all other nationalities and declare allegiance to the Australian version of the Queen?
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:48 am
by Martin_B
sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:40 pm
Didn't a bunch of Aussie MPs of all parties get into trouble a while back because it was found that they were dual nationals (in some cases with the UK as the other country)? Wiki says Abbott was born in London to a British father and Aussie mother, so presumably for some part of his life he held a UK passport. I wonder how hard you have to close your eyes when you renounce all other nationalities and declare allegiance to the Australian version of the Queen?
As someone who has closed my eyes and declared allegiance to Australia I did so without having to renounce my British citizenship. Dual nationality is perfectly legal here.
However, when I took Australian citizenship (back in 2011, some 6 years before the troubles) it was made abundantly clear to me that if I ever wanted to stand for any level of government I had to renounce all other national ties. That so many MP and senators were found to have dual nationality was staggering. (Although a number were found to have applied to renounce their British citizenship in the run-up to the 2016 election, but the UK authorities didn't officially remove citizenship until after the election!)
Re: Getting Brexit done
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:10 am
by plodder
This article in the guardian, once you read between the lines, says we've not run out of time yet.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ors-summit