Getting Brexit done

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:09 am

plodder wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:10 am
This article in the guardian, once you read between the lines, says we've not run out of time yet.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ors-summit
Correct. Johnson could still do what he did last year and at the last minute agree to what the EU wants.

We are though running out of time for actual negotiation.

Also, brinkmanship is risky. Johnson could believe that he’s left it to the last moment and then find that it’s already too late.

Squeak
Snowbonk
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:27 am

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Squeak » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:59 am

Funnily enough, (almost?) all the politicians who got into trouble for dual citizenship we're white.

People who have spent their lives having their Australianess queried got their paperwork in order before standing for parliament. It was the ones whose sense of belonging was comfortable who got into trouble. That did nicely scramble the ideological lines of the punditry.

User avatar
lpm
After Pie
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm
Location: IMPEACH AND EXTERMINATE

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:32 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:09 am
plodder wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:10 am
This article in the guardian, once you read between the lines, says we've not run out of time yet.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ors-summit
Correct. Johnson could still do what he did last year and at the last minute agree to what the EU wants.
I'm not sure this is true. Last year there was already a negotiated version with a border in the Irish Sea, that had been done in the Theresa May era before she (rightly) rejected it as leading to the break up of the UK. They just had to dust it off and copy & paste a few paragraphs into the Boris Brexit version.

There's nothing like that now. A 400 page treaty can't just be produced overnight from a blank page. It's not like a late night essay crisis where a chap just crams like a swot for a few hours, taking a break only for an impromptu game of rugger in the quad.

If the EU has sense, it would produce it's version now - the only document on the table might be cheerfully signed by Johnson without reading it. He never read the last one after all.
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:44 am

lpm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:32 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:09 am
plodder wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:10 am
This article in the guardian, once you read between the lines, says we've not run out of time yet.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ors-summit
Correct. Johnson could still do what he did last year and at the last minute agree to what the EU wants.
I'm not sure this is true. Last year there was already a negotiated version with a border in the Irish Sea, that had been done in the Theresa May era before she (rightly) rejected it as leading to the break up of the UK. They just had to dust it off and copy & paste a few paragraphs into the Boris Brexit version.

There's nothing like that now. A 400 page treaty can't just be produced overnight from a blank page. It's not like a late night essay crisis where a chap just crams like a swot for a few hours, taking a break only for an impromptu game of rugger in the quad.

If the EU has sense, it would produce it's version now - the only document on the table might be cheerfully signed by Johnson without reading it. He never read the last one after all.
I'm sure that the EU has already drafted the treaty it wants.

User avatar
lpm
After Pie
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm
Location: IMPEACH AND EXTERMINATE

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:56 am

It should keep presenting it. With a fanfare of trumpets each time. "Here's a deal that gives the UK tariff free access to the single market". When the UK rejects it, change the font and re-present it as a revised deal.
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

User avatar
Little waster
Catbabel
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:07 am

lpm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:56 am
It should keep presenting it. With a fanfare of trumpets each time. "Here's a deal that gives the UK tariff free access to the single market". When the UK rejects it, change the font and re-present it as a revised deal and then blame the UK's reluctance to simply just roll over and accept only cosmetic changes on a baffling and shameful UK intransigence.
FTFBrexiteers
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

User avatar
shpalman
After Pie
Posts: 1826
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by shpalman » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:10 am

There withdrawal agreement was basically a copy and paste of the current EU rules, on freedom of movement anyway, and there were still remainers saying thEY've gIvEn UP FReeDoM of MoVeMENT.

So as remainers we just have to keep complaining about how terrible the deal is while it's basically just the UK accepting the EU's current rules.
molto tricky

plodder
Catbabel
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:50 pm

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by plodder » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:53 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:56 am
It should keep presenting it. With a fanfare of trumpets each time. "Here's a deal that gives the UK tariff free access to the single market". When the UK rejects it, change the font and re-present it as a revised deal.
That is what's happening. The current "stalemate" is just to fill the time whilst someone changes the typeface. It's holiday season, all the graduates are on Tik Tok for a week.

FlammableFlower
Catbabel
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FlammableFlower » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:20 pm

Barnier's flabber has been well and truly gasted at the UK trying to sneak in text to have their cake and eat it, or rather in this case to have English feta but not allow Greek pasties...

User avatar
Little waster
Catbabel
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:47 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:20 pm
Barnier's flabber has been well and truly gasted at the UK trying to sneak in text to have their cake and eat it, or rather in this case to have English feta but not allow Greek pasties...
Frost, a former chief executive of the Scotch Whisky Association, which campaigns to stop foreign rivals using the name “Scotch”, included the GI proposal in a draft trade agreement he hoped would inject new momentum into the stalled negotiations.
In much the same way you inject new momentum into a race car by hitching it to a caravan, letting down its tyres and pissing in its fuel tank.
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

User avatar
Little waster
Catbabel
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:31 pm

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:53 am
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... isory-role

You’re f.cking kidding me, right? Tony f.cking Abbott banging the drum for Brexit?
Via Marina Hyde, this heart-warming anecdote from the from the Before Times.


TBH I’m resigned to rightwing politicians being morons or dickheads or usually both, but I have to say I’m still constantly surprised at exactly how f.cking useless they actually prove to be.
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

User avatar
Gfamily
After Pie
Posts: 1676
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gfamily » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:06 pm

And now the bl..dy Saxons stick their oars in.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/ne ... rk-232935/
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Little waster
Catbabel
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:09 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:06 pm
And now the bl..dy Saxons stick their oars in.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/ne ... rk-232935/
f.cking Germans, refuse to accept Leave means Leave!
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

User avatar
JQH
Catbabel
Posts: 894
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:40 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:06 pm
And now the bl..dy Saxons stick their oars in.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/ne ... rk-232935/
Saxons? bl..dy immigrants, send 'em back!
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
sTeamTraen
Catbabel
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:24 pm

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sTeamTraen » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:49 pm

Careering along in my creosote car

User avatar
Little waster
Catbabel
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:09 pm

In a shock new development, UK threatens to bring forward deadline, either the EU provides us the 350 million unicorn-shaped cherry cakes per week we demand or we will gladly walk away and embrace the same global trading policy that has made Mauritania an economic powerhouse. If Barnier won't do it we have no compunction about going over his head and negotiating separately with individual EU countries because that will obviously work wonders and we can simply hand-wave away any issues with NI and the GFA.

Funny story; I fell asleep last night and had the weirdest dream. Somehow it was 2020 and Boris Johnson had become PM by hiding in a fridge or something and then there was this deadly global pandemic which could only be stopped by singing "Happy Birthday" at it and then America elected the Baron Harkonnen (the one from the film not the book) as President and something about Madeline McCann and just a whole load of other random crap which made no sense.

Thank f.ck I woke up, read this story and was glad to realise it was actually still September 2018 and absolutely nothing had changed.

f.cking cold pizza for supper, what was I thinking?
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:31 am

UK plan to undermine withdrawal treaty puts Brexit talks at risk
Internal market bill to override parts of N Ireland protocol as Johnson says sides should move on if no deal by Oct 15

The UK is planning new legislation that will override key parts of the Brexit withdrawal agreement, risking the collapse of trade negotiations with Brussels. 

Sections of the internal market bill — due to be published this Wednesday — are expected to “eliminate the legal force of parts of the withdrawal agreement” in areas including state aid and Northern Ireland customs, according to three people familiar with the plans. 

The move would “clearly and consciously” undermine the agreement on Northern Ireland that Boris Johnson signed last October to avoid a return to a hard border in the region, one person with knowledge of the plans said.

Last week, the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier warned that “a precise implementation of the withdrawal agreement” was vital for the success of trade talks and a key issue of trust between the two parties.

“It is a very blunt instrument,” said one of those familiar with the matter. “The bill will explicitly say the government reserves the right to set its own regime, directly setting up UK law in opposition with obligations under the withdrawal agreement, and in full cognisance that this will breach international law.”

The UK internal market bill, outlined in a 100-page white paper in July, is designed to secure the “seamless functioning” of trade between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland after the UK leaves the EU’s single market and customs union at the end of this year.

But some clauses in the bill will effectively override parts of the so-called Northern Ireland protocol, which was signed alongside the withdrawal agreement in October and has enraged prominent Brexit-supporting MPs who see it as a threat to British sovereignty. 

A government spokesperson said it was “working hard to resolve outstanding issues” with the Northern Ireland protocol. The spokesperson added: “As a responsible government, we are considering fallback options in the event this is not achieved to ensure the communities of Northern Ireland are protected.”

Under the withdrawal agreement, the UK must notify Brussels of any state-aid decisions that would affect Northern Ireland’s goods market, and compel businesses in the province to file customs paperwork when sending goods into the rest of the UK. But clauses in the internal market and finance bills will force the UK courts to follow the new UK law rather than the EU deal, diluting the ability of the protocol to intrude on UK state-aid policy.

The autumn finance bill, used to write the chancellor’s Budget into law, is also expected to overwrite a third aspect of the Northern Ireland protocol covering the payment of tariffs on goods entering the region, said those familiar with the plans. 

Officials say the plans risk poisoning the prospects of an eleventh-hour deal.
https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-0c2 ... 0c75a2f7a7

User avatar
lpm
After Pie
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm
Location: IMPEACH AND EXTERMINATE

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:45 am

Why would the government be- oh wait, it's that gross incompetence thing again isn't it.
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

bmforre
Fuzzable
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: Trondheim

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:39 am

Government and Brexiters may be looking fondly at David Low's "Very well, alone" cartoon.

What'll be next? David Wilkie "Chelsea Pensioners reading the Waterloo Dispatch" ?

User avatar
Little waster
Catbabel
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:59 am

bmforre wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:39 am
Government and Brexiters may be looking fondly at David Low's "Very well, alone" cartoon.

What'll be next? David Wilkie "Chelsea Pensioners reading the Waterloo Dispatch" ?
This seems apt:-

Image

And this one is particular poignant, with the revised title "Why are you pissing this away, you spoilt tw.ts?!":-

Image
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

bmforre
Fuzzable
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: Trondheim

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:14 am

Not for nothing is your last name "Waster". Might add "Heartless" seing you won't allow the deluded their gladness before reality hits.

User avatar
TimW
Stargoon
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:27 pm

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TimW » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:28 am

I just read this expert quote:
wrote:David Davis, a long-standing Brexiteer and the UK's former Brexit secretary, thinks there are "three options which are equally likely": no deal, lots of micro deals and a free trade agreement.
So, no effing clue what's actually going to happen then. Fantastic.

What did the country vote for, any idea?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/07/uk/j ... index.html

User avatar
Woodchopper
After Pie
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Remarkable article
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-07/the ... trade-deal

Suggests that Cummings is willing to go through with a ‘no deal’ in order to preserve the ability of the UK government to subsidize tech companies. Basically sacrificing swathes of existing in order to be able to attempt to pick a few winning companies.

User avatar
bjn
Catbabel
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:58 pm

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:08 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Remarkable article
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-07/the ... trade-deal

Suggests that Cummings is willing to go through with a ‘no deal’ in order to preserve the ability of the UK government to subsidize tech companies. Basically sacrificing swathes of existing in order to be able to attempt to pick a few winning companies.
As the CTO of a tech company, I would welcome a few million in subsidy, but it really is f.cking stupid. Even if the UK had massive tech companies, the f.ckers in the City would eventually sell them off for a quick buck to the Japanese/Chinese/Americans/Whoever. eg: ARM

User avatar
jimbob
Dorkwood
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:55 pm

bjn wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:08 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Remarkable article
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-07/the ... trade-deal

Suggests that Cummings is willing to go through with a ‘no deal’ in order to preserve the ability of the UK government to subsidize tech companies. Basically sacrificing swathes of existing in order to be able to attempt to pick a few winning companies.
As the CTO of a tech company, I would welcome a few million in subsidy, but it really is f.cking stupid. Even if the UK had massive tech companies, the f.ckers in the City would eventually sell them off for a quick buck to the Japanese/Chinese/Americans/Whoever. eg: ARM
And subsidies are no replacement for frictionless trade
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

Post Reply