Getting Brexit done

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bjn
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 pm

jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:55 pm
bjn wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:08 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:28 pm
Remarkable article
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-07/the ... trade-deal

Suggests that Cummings is willing to go through with a ‘no deal’ in order to preserve the ability of the UK government to subsidize tech companies. Basically sacrificing swathes of existing in order to be able to attempt to pick a few winning companies.
As the CTO of a tech company, I would welcome a few million in subsidy, but it really is f.cking stupid. Even if the UK had massive tech companies, the f.ckers in the City would eventually sell them off for a quick buck to the Japanese/Chinese/Americans/Whoever. eg: ARM
And subsidies are no replacement for frictionless trade
And our major trading partners would happily accept products and services based on unfair subsidies.

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TAFKAsoveda
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TAFKAsoveda » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:28 am

:roll:

Brexit: UK chief negotiator calls for 'realism' from EU https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54062413

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by plodder » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:56 am

bjn wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 pm

And our major trading partners would happily accept products and services based on unfair subsidies.
Well, they might slap tariffs on, they might not. There are a couple of things going on here.

The first is that EU state aid rules prevent the UK from having autonomy - if Brexit is about anything it's about that.
The second is what is that autonomy for? Cummings wants to subsidise tech firms, presumably Starmer would subsidise social care.

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bjn
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:08 am

plodder wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:56 am
bjn wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 pm

And our major trading partners would happily accept products and services based on unfair subsidies.
Well, they might slap tariffs on, they might not. There are a couple of things going on here.

The first is that EU state aid rules prevent the UK from having autonomy - if Brexit is about anything it's about that.
The second is what is that autonomy for? Cummings wants to subsidise tech firms, presumably Starmer would subsidise social care.
Then you can't lay the blame on failure in the talks on the EU, because it's cake-ism. Plus involvement of governments in funding the private sector is possible under the current rules anyway, eg: a new giant battery startup got 1.3 billion euros from the governments of France and Germany, just don't call it state aid.

Plus, you can subsides social care without subsidising companies.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by plodder » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:26 am

We’ve been through the state aid thing before, some of it certainly happens (eg Nissan in Sunderland). Very much looks like the UK gov wants to inject a huge stimulus (“white heat of technology”, anyone?) that wouldn’t be within EU rules though, and the idea that the UK wouldn’t be autonomous is anathema to the idea of Brexit.

In other hilarious news, Telegraph is now trumpeting that Johnson thinks the NI provisions in the withdrawal agreement don’t make sense, and will tell the EU exactly this. He f.cking negotiated it.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:33 am

plodder wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:26 am
We’ve been through the state aid thing before, some of it certainly happens (eg Nissan in Sunderland). Very much looks like the UK gov wants to inject a huge stimulus (“white heat of technology”, anyone?) that wouldn’t be within EU rules though, and the idea that the UK wouldn’t be autonomous is anathema to the idea of Brexit.

In other hilarious news, Telegraph is now trumpeting that Johnson thinks the NI provisions in the withdrawal agreement don’t make sense, and will tell the EU exactly this. He f.cking negotiated it.
Also

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... than-jones
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:47 am

Oof wrote:Theresa May, the former Conservative prime minister, asks how the UK can be trusted to keep its word in the light of the plans unveiled by the government this week.

Brandon Lewis says businesses need certainty. These plans will give certainty to the people of Northern Ireland that the government will deliver on what it promised them.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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bjn
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:24 pm

jimbob wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:33 am
plodder wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:26 am
We’ve been through the state aid thing before, some of it certainly happens (eg Nissan in Sunderland). Very much looks like the UK gov wants to inject a huge stimulus (“white heat of technology”, anyone?) that wouldn’t be within EU rules though, and the idea that the UK wouldn’t be autonomous is anathema to the idea of Brexit.

In other hilarious news, Telegraph is now trumpeting that Johnson thinks the NI provisions in the withdrawal agreement don’t make sense, and will tell the EU exactly this. He f.cking negotiated it.
Also

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... than-jones
So the civil service will now be run by incompetent yes men instead. Great.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:10 pm

bjn wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:24 pm
So the civil service will now be run by incompetent yes men instead. Great.
Compare with WaPo crying out loudly
about the US being undermined by lack of vital competence because only "YesYes! Three bags full" lackeys accepted by present president.

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:19 pm

It's a completely different situation. Under Cummings government the Yes men will all be saying yes for bold, free-thinking and disruptive reasons. It's not just a case of doing what Cummings wants, you need to be able to come up with a b.llsh.t justification too.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:13 pm

Make England Great Again
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:26 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:13 pm
Make England Great Again
Make England More Disruptive!

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:35 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:13 pm
Make England Great Again
Sovereignty Makes England Great
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by PeteB » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:42 pm

Rule Brittania, Brittania waives the rules

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:18 pm

PeteB wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:42 pm
Rule Brittania, Brittania waives the rules
Very nice.
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:27 pm

Don't worry Baldrick has a cunning plan!




To say I'm a little sceptical that the famously thick IDS has somehow outsmarted the entire Eurozone financial sector would be a slight understatement.
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

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TAFKAsoveda
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TAFKAsoveda » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:28 pm

Little waster wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:35 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:13 pm
Make England Great Again
Sovereignty Makes England Great
Can you work H E A D in there for extra points?

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by headshot » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:40 pm

Honouring Exceptionalism And Diminishment

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:33 pm

TAFKAsoveda wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:28 pm
Little waster wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:35 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:13 pm
Make England Great Again
Sovereignty Makes England Great
Can you work H E A D in there for extra points?
As long as it fits on a red cap* it will be fine.

*Made in Slovenia
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

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jimbob
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:39 pm

My MP has a majority of less than 600, so I've emailed him. At the least it forces him to reply.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FlammableFlower » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:47 am

No surprises, but the Democrats have reiterated that if we f.ck around with the GFA and Biden wins the US election, there's no chance that we're going to have a nice smooth trade deal...

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jimbob
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by jimbob » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:47 am
No surprises, but the Democrats have reiterated that if we f.ck around with the GFA and Biden wins the US election, there's no chance that we're going to have a nice smooth trade deal...
It doesn't even need Biden to win. It just needs the Democrats to hold either the Presidency or the House
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by dyqik » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:41 pm

jimbob wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 am
FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:47 am
No surprises, but the Democrats have reiterated that if we f.ck around with the GFA and Biden wins the US election, there's no chance that we're going to have a nice smooth trade deal...
It doesn't even need Biden to win. It just needs the Democrats to hold either the Presidency or the House
And even then, there are plenty of Republicans in the House that strongly support the GFA

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by veravista » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:33 pm

So I've just written to my MP asking her whether she is happy to vote for the Internal Market Bill, knowing that she would be encouraging the government to break international law. I'd would assume that encouraging someone to commit a crime is in itself a crime*, so what are the chances of getting the police to go and arrest her (she's a Tory so in practice they wouldn't, obviously).

What could she be charged with?

* Someone I knew was charged (but not prosecuted) for riding a motorcycle with a group of friends where one of them was involved in a fatal RTA, being complicit in the act or something.

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Rich Scopie
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Rich Scopie » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:54 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:18 pm
PeteB wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:42 pm
Rule Brittania, Brittania waives the rules
Very nice.
If I were Brittania[sic] I'd waive the rules.
220px-Budgie_-_If_I_Were_Brittania_I'd_Waive_the_Rules.jpg
220px-Budgie_-_If_I_Were_Brittania_I'd_Waive_the_Rules.jpg (24.74 KiB) Viewed 189 times
It first was a rumour dismissed as a lie, but then came the evidence none could deny:
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!

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