Article on US Immigration policy

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:40 pm

Explains why so few Hispanic/Brown people are admitted as legal immigrants to America.
When I asked Northwest Immigrant Rights Project Executive Director Jorge Barón about his take on the locked-door analogy, he said it was largely true except that for many migrants, there is effectively no door at all. With all the new barriers and changes, Barón said it’s now taking the agency 40% longer than two years ago to process its clients’ immigration cases.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... arricaded/

Wondering what the new John/Con post Brexit immigration policy will look like?
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
bolo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:17 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by bolo » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:37 pm

As has already been explained to you, the vast majority of legal US immigration is nonwhite. Among new legal permanent residents in 2016, 43.7% were from the Americas, mostly Mexico, 37.7% were from Asia, 10.5% from Africa, and only 7.5% from Europe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra ... ted_States

Relatively few Mexicans emigrate to the UK. Relatively few Eastern Europeans emigrate to the United States. This is almost entirely because of geography, not racism.

To be clear, yes, there's plenty of racism in the immigration policy of both countries, but this isn't it.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am

Thanks, bolo, for bringing some nuance to a complicated,chaotic and contentious subject.
At one time immigration to the US was predominantly white, but over time the balance has shifted to peoples of colour, primarily from Asia and Latin America. Now the pendelum is swinging again with the US using administrative regulation and bureaucracy to limit non white immigration.

In the UK, with European immigration about to be removed, I expect the Boris government to attempt bring in immigrants from Australia, NZ, America
and possibly Russia. It will certainly be interesting to see how this develops.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
Martin_B
After Pie
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Martin_B » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:15 am

Herainestold wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am
Thanks, bolo, for bringing some nuance to a complicated,chaotic and contentious subject.
At one time immigration to the US was predominantly white, but over time the balance has shifted to peoples of colour, primarily from Asia and Latin America. Now the pendelum is swinging again with the US using administrative regulation and bureaucracy to limit non white immigration.

In the UK, with European immigration about to be removed, I expect the Boris government to attempt bring in immigrants from Australia, NZ, America
and possibly Russia. It will certainly be interesting to see how this develops.
Why on earth would people from Australia and NZ want to go to the UK? Possibly short-term work experience, but net immigration between the UK and the antipodes is generally southwards.
"My interest is in the future, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life there"

User avatar
Gentleman Jim
Catbabel
Posts: 634
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:38 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:20 am

Martin_B wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:15 am
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am
Thanks, bolo, for bringing some nuance to a complicated,chaotic and contentious subject.
At one time immigration to the US was predominantly white, but over time the balance has shifted to peoples of colour, primarily from Asia and Latin America. Now the pendelum is swinging again with the US using administrative regulation and bureaucracy to limit non white immigration.

In the UK, with European immigration about to be removed, I expect the Boris government to attempt bring in immigrants from Australia, NZ, America
and possibly Russia. It will certainly be interesting to see how this develops.
Why on earth would people from Australia and NZ want to go to the UK? Possibly short-term work experience, but net immigration between the UK and the antipodes is generally southwards.
Although a big increase in numbers of Indians being "allowed" into the UK is one of the demands from Modi for the UK to get a trade deal
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

User avatar
bolo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:17 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by bolo » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:56 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am
Now the pendelum is swinging again with the US using administrative regulation and bureaucracy to limit non white immigration.
Evidence please.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:16 pm

bolo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:56 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am
Now the pendelum is swinging again with the US using administrative regulation and bureaucracy to limit non white immigration.
Evidence please.
The article I posted.

and this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:17 pm

bolo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:56 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am
Now the pendelum is swinging again with the US using administrative regulation and bureaucracy to limit non white immigration.
Evidence please.
Seriously?

Metering of asylum applications?

Muslim ban?

It's not targeting all non-white groups, but all groups targeted are non-white.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
Pucksoppet
Snowbonk
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:13 pm
Location: Girdling the Earth

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Pucksoppet » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:10 pm

The book (Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration) advertised by this comic might be worth a read:

https://smbc-comics.com/comic/open-borders
We are trying to persuade you that, based on your own moral precepts and on carefully considered economics, that a world of open immigration is a wealthier, safer, more humane world.

User avatar
bolo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:17 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by bolo » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:45 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:17 pm
bolo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:56 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:09 am
Now the pendelum is swinging again with the US using administrative regulation and bureaucracy to limit non white immigration.
Evidence please.
Seriously?

Metering of asylum applications?

Muslim ban?

It's not targeting all non-white groups, but all groups targeted are non-white.
The vast majority of US immigrants are nonwhite. The policies you mention are reducing overall numbers, and shifting the country of origin balance a bit, but they don't constitute anything close to a swinging pendulum headed back to 100 years ago when immigrants were mostly European.

To be clear, I think the Muslim ban and the treatment of asylum applicants are despicable. And I've said repeatedly that yes, there is racism in US immigration policy. But herainestold seems to imagine that the goal of reducing current immigration flows (which are mostly nonwhite) is somehow to make room for more white immigration. That's ludicrous.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:05 am

bolo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:45 pm


To be clear, I think the Muslim ban and the treatment of asylum applicants are despicable. And I've said repeatedly that yes, there is racism in US immigration policy. But herainestold seems to imagine that the goal of reducing current immigration flows (which are mostly nonwhite) is somehow to make room for more white immigration. That's ludicrous.
The primary goal is to reduce the number of immigrants both legal and illegal. The secondary goal is increase the proportion of "desirable" immigrants at the expense of "undesirable" immigrants. Its not a perfect fit between undesirable and non white but there is a large overlap.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
Martin_B
After Pie
Posts: 1614
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Martin_B » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:23 am

Thank you Sybil
"My interest is in the future, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life there"

User avatar
bolo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:17 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by bolo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:55 am

Herainestold wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:05 am
The primary goal is to reduce the number of immigrants both legal and illegal. The secondary goal is increase the proportion of "desirable" immigrants at the expense of "undesirable" immigrants.
IMHO the primary goal by far is to reduce the number of undesirable immigrants. Why would anybody want to reduce the number of desirable immigrants? The question is what constitutes undesirable.

For the current Administration, all illegal immigrants are inherently undesirable, hence the wall. Muslims are undesirable, because of fear and prejudice, hence the Muslim ban. Asylum seekers crossing the southern border are undesirable, because they are presumed to be ordinary illegal immigrants in disguise, using asylum as an excuse. Refugees are undesirable, because some of them are Muslim as above, and some of them are from Latin America, assumed as above to be ordinary migrants using a claim of refugee status as an excuse. Maybe some refugees from other places are also undesirable simply because this Administration is compassion impaired.

The Administration has proposed shifting the framework of the legal immigration system to give more emphasis to high skill workers and less to family members of current citizens and permanent residents. This is usually explained as making the US system more like Canada's or Australia's. If this happened, I imagine it would very likely result in a higher proportion of European immigrants. But it would require a change in the law, not just an administrative action, and as I understand it, neither party in Congress has any interest in the idea.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:48 pm

bolo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:45 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:17 pm
bolo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:56 pm

Evidence please.
Seriously?

Metering of asylum applications?

Muslim ban?

It's not targeting all non-white groups, but all groups targeted are non-white.
The vast majority of US immigrants are nonwhite. The policies you mention are reducing overall numbers, and shifting the country of origin balance a bit, but they don't constitute anything close to a swinging pendulum headed back to 100 years ago when immigrants were mostly European.

To be clear, I think the Muslim ban and the treatment of asylum applicants are despicable. And I've said repeatedly that yes, there is racism in US immigration policy. But herainestold seems to imagine that the goal of reducing current immigration flows (which are mostly nonwhite) is somehow to make room for more white immigration. That's ludicrous.
Yes fair enough - I hadn't really processed that Herainestold was (seemingly?) suggesting that current US policy is aiming for majority-white immigration. I don't think that's really the case. Although I don't suspect the president and his ilk would mind at all if there were zero non-white immigrants in the future.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:34 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:48 pm


Yes fair enough - I hadn't really processed that Herainestold was (seemingly?) suggesting that current US policy is aiming for majority-white immigration. I don't think that's really the case. Although I don't suspect the president and his ilk would mind at all if there were zero non-white immigrants in the future.
The goal of those at the upper echelons of the Trump government ( Trump, Steven Miller) is to reduce immigration period. That most of the reduction will come from non white people is a bonus.
And his long-sought policy goals are reaching fruition. On Monday, Miller secured tighter immigration rules that can disqualify green-card applicants if they are poor or deemed likely to use public assistance, cutting off a pathway to U.S. citizenship for those immigrants who could become a burden on taxpayers, or “public charges.”

Miller’s horizon extends beyond one or even two presidential terms. He views the public charge rule as vital to his goal of reducing immigration, and he has told colleagues it will have “socially transformative effects” on American society.

“Immigration is an issue that affects all others,” Miller said, speaking in structured paragraphs. “Immigration affects our health-care system. Immigration affects our education system. Immigration affects our public safety, it affects our national security, it affects our economy and our financial system. It touches upon everything, but the goal is to create an immigration system that enhances the vibrancy, the unity, the togetherness and the strength of our society.”
While many of Trump’s advisers favored the president’s rhetoric on the threat of illegal immigrants, they urged him to retain a more welcoming message for those seeking to come to the United States legally. But Miller insisted that slashing those visas should be central to the president’s agenda, because it is central to the electoral map that runs through the Rust Belt and Upper Midwest.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... migration/
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
bolo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:17 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by bolo » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:28 pm

Pucksoppet wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:10 pm
The book (Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration) advertised by this comic might be worth a read:

https://smbc-comics.com/comic/open-borders
We are trying to persuade you that, based on your own moral precepts and on carefully considered economics, that a world of open immigration is a wealthier, safer, more humane world.
I've just noticed that there's a very positive review of this book in last week's Economist, calling it "a brilliant distillation of the moral, economic and practical arguments for open borders."

User avatar
Pucksoppet
Snowbonk
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:13 pm
Location: Girdling the Earth

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Pucksoppet » Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:50 pm

bolo wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:28 pm
Pucksoppet wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:10 pm
The book (Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration) advertised by this comic might be worth a read:

https://smbc-comics.com/comic/open-borders
We are trying to persuade you that, based on your own moral precepts and on carefully considered economics, that a world of open immigration is a wealthier, safer, more humane world.
I've just noticed that there's a very positive review of this book in last week's Economist, calling it "a brilliant distillation of the moral, economic and practical arguments for open borders."
Well, I try to recommend worthwhile things. I don't always succeed. If my recommendations waste someone's time, I apologise.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:22 am

It does sound interesting - thanks for the recommendation.

I'm thinking about buying it, but the comic format is putting me off a bit. I haven't read a comic in about twenty years, and never one longer/more complicated than the Beano.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
GeenDienst
Dorkwood
Posts: 1093
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:10 am

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by GeenDienst » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:10 pm

Think of it as a "graphic resource".
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

User avatar
bolo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:17 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by bolo » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Pucksoppet wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:50 pm
Well, I try to recommend worthwhile things. I don't always succeed. If my recommendations waste someone's time, I apologise.
My comment was intended as "I second Pucksoppet" not "what a surprise, someone agrees with Pucksoppet". Apologies if it didn't come off that way.

Like BoaF, I find the graphic format a bit offputting, but I may give it a try despite that. Thanks for the tip.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:29 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/us/u ... ytnational

l

Population growth in the United States crept along at its slowest pace in decades in 2019, stymied by a sharp decline in the number of new immigrants, fewer births and the graying of America, new estimates from the Census Bureau show.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

User avatar
Pucksoppet
Snowbonk
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:13 pm
Location: Girdling the Earth

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Pucksoppet » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:46 pm

bolo wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:47 pm
Pucksoppet wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:50 pm
Well, I try to recommend worthwhile things. I don't always succeed. If my recommendations waste someone's time, I apologise.
My comment was intended as "I second Pucksoppet" not "what a surprise, someone agrees with Pucksoppet". Apologies if it didn't come off that way.

Like BoaF, I find the graphic format a bit offputting, but I may give it a try despite that. Thanks for the tip.
Don't worry, I wasn't taking it the wrong way.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:21 am

Can there be any doubt that Trump is nudging America towards a whites only immigration policy?


Trump’s expanded travel ban will hit Nigerians the hardest

It will effectively ban Nigerian immigration to the US.

But now, the Trump administration is preventing further legal immigration from Nigeria, citing concerns about the country’s security standards, as well as heightened terrorist threats. The administration wants to see Nigeria improve their information-sharing with US authorities and Interpol to help identify criminals and terrorists.
“African immigrants in general and Nigerian immigrants in particular are among the most educated and successful immigrants in the United States,” Frank Sharry, the executive director of the immigration advocacy group America’s Voice, said in a statement. “But the success and contributions of African communities is beside the point for this administration. It’s not a policy announcement based on facts – it’s based on Trump’s desire to make America white again.”
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 2029
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by Herainestold » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:18 am

Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again

secret squirrel
Snowbonk
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Re: Article on US Immigration policy

Post by secret squirrel » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:17 am

Pucksoppet wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:50 pm
bolo wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:28 pm
Pucksoppet wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:10 pm
The book (Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration) advertised by this comic might be worth a read:

https://smbc-comics.com/comic/open-borders

I've just noticed that there's a very positive review of this book in last week's Economist, calling it "a brilliant distillation of the moral, economic and practical arguments for open borders."
Well, I try to recommend worthwhile things. I don't always succeed. If my recommendations waste someone's time, I apologise.
The Economist is a bit of a joke though. It's kind of a negative endorsement.

Post Reply