Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Is software engineering, well, engineering?
I really don't know. But I know a few engineers who are creationists.
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- After Pie
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
No.
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
I do too. And those that are, they all tend to deal primarily with code, even though they're not actually software engineers.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Software engineers can take B.Eng or M.Eng degrees and have chartered status too, you know. Most just don't bother because it makes no difference in the job market.
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Having processes and standards to get software built and released is what turns programming into engineering. Why was something written? How was it designed? How was it written? Who wrote it? How was it tested? How does it integrate into other systems? How does it get released? How do you track known problems? How do you collect new problems? How do you document it? How do you decide what to build next? How do you interact with your users? Formalising all that, and more, is an engineering process and not just hacking sh.t together.
- Woodchopper
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Yes, it seems to me that engineering is using science to make things. I don’t see why that should exclude software, especially as most physical objects built by engineers these days probably have a software element.
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Software engineers won't replace your washing machine, so no.
But seriously, engineering is a process as the scientific method is a process, so its less a question of what you're doing as how you're doing it that makes something engineering, to my mind.
But seriously, engineering is a process as the scientific method is a process, so its less a question of what you're doing as how you're doing it that makes something engineering, to my mind.
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- Catbabel
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Is "engineer" a protected occupation name like midwife or dietician ?? If not then anyone can claim to be an engineer (but presumably not "chartered engineer" unless they've got the piece of paper to prove it)
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Homeopathic doctors can take M.D or PhD.Med degrees and have GMC registered status too, you know. Most just don’t bother because it makes no difference in the job market.
I can’t say that’s the most convincing of arguments TBH. Bjn and woodchopper made a much better fist of it.
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
If they learned homeopathy in their MD then your argument would make sense.Little waster wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:27 amHomeopathic doctors can take M.D or PhD.Med degrees and have GMC registered status too, you know. Most just don’t bother because it makes no difference in the job market.
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
It can be, but most software is not engineered. That which is, is rather expensive as a result of the non-exclusive set of processes listed by bjn, which require person-hours, which are usually in remunerated positions.
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Doesn't involve cranes or diggers therefore meh
- veravista
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
No, not protected in the slightest in the UK, unlike in Europe. Being chartered isn't but that's only a conferred title by individual institutes. In certain engineering disciplines being chartered is a condition of the job (much like accountancy) and a legal requirement. However, the common understanding of 'engineer' in the UK is anything from a plumber upwards. Pisses me off a bit to be honest, especially as it took me years to get my chartered status at which point I considered myself a proper engineer.
I do have a very good friend who I would consider a proper software engineer however. He writes control and interface software for mining equipment and whole mines, he started off as an electrical engineer, I mentored him through a mechanical engineering degree while he taught himself programming. As part of his current job he has knocked up an android app to track, control and secure all the equipment underground. He can track equipment miles underground in Siberia and Vietnam from his phone while we're having a pint or two
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
I recently discovered that one of my colleagues had spent most of his career as an automotive software engineer - I'd thought his background was primarily hardware, which is sort of what he does now. I've moved fields slightly so speak to him more often both for work and socially.veravista wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:23 pmNo, not protected in the slightest in the UK, unlike in Europe. Being chartered isn't but that's only a conferred title by individual institutes. In certain engineering disciplines being chartered is a condition of the job (much like accountancy) and a legal requirement. However, the common understanding of 'engineer' in the UK is anything from a plumber upwards. Pisses me off a bit to be honest, especially as it took me years to get my chartered status at which point I considered myself a proper engineer.
I do have a very good friend who I would consider a proper software engineer however. He writes control and interface software for mining equipment and whole mines, he started off as an electrical engineer, I mentored him through a mechanical engineering degree while he taught himself programming. As part of his current job he has knocked up an android app to track, control and secure all the equipment underground. He can track equipment miles underground in Siberia and Vietnam from his phone while we're having a pint or two
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
There are quite a few applications of software which are safety critical, not least in astronomical eng, aeronautical eng, railways, etc. The software in those tends to be very carefully built, with lots of checks, which I'd say is definitely part of an engineering process
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
But how's about the definition of "we have a commercial need and the software works" which is 99% of software engineering. Is that good enough for you lot? Would you call someone who bolts ads into a website an engineer?
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
That's coding.
Any systemic protection against fraud could be software engineering.
Any systemic protection against fraud could be software engineering.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
That's engineering. Making a product that works well enough to fit the requirements. Same as for making a process to make and print crappy logos on cheap t-shirts.
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Right, exactly. Solving any problem that makes someone money and it's "engineering". Translate the same problem into the not-for-profit sector and "engineering" becomes "I done a clever". So no, software programmers are not automatically engineers.
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Not automatically, no. The question of whether they're engineers or not comes down to whether they wear short-sleeved shirts all the time and don't understand how high their trousers should be.
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Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
The qualifications have been relaxed. In addition to the above, they used to have to wear pocket protectors.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:51 pmNot automatically, no. The question of whether they're engineers or not comes down to whether they wear short-sleeved shirts all the time and don't understand how high their trousers should be.
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
I think you mean grubby heavy metal t-shirt.
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
Plaid flannel shirt and jeans in my case. And yes, I'm doing engineering, in that I'm designing a feed horn and making sure it meets spec. and is manufacturable. And also writing some code to coding standards while my simulations are running.
Re: Is software engineering, well, engineering?
In the United States, certain categories of engineering work require licensure as a Professional Engineer.
https://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe
But you don't have to be a licensed PE to call yourself an engineer. And I don't know whether software types commonly get PE licenses.