Trump Impeachment

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Bewildered
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Bewildered » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:15 am

I realise all of these claims are quite plausible given trump, but why should we believe Bolton? and do his claims even serve a good purpose?

As far as I can tell Bolton was a force for bad in Donald Trump’s White House, pushing a crazy leader to be more belligerent and aggressive in foreign policy. Maybe Bolton is really just having a pop because he is pissed off that trump got rid of him and want to make money, in which case fine and maybe the book will just hurt trump. But what I don’t like is that it is pushing a mainstream media narrative towards criticism of trump for not being hard enough with china and not compromising himself, when my felling is trump has been too far in the direction of picking fights with China over thing that are unnecessary (picking one over the detention camps would be better, though I am not really sure what can be done on this).

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Brightonian
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Brightonian » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:09 am

Bolton's book has been leaked in PDF format - lots of people on Twitter offering links.

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lpm
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by lpm » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:25 pm

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:42 pm
Just to recap:

Trump has retweeted a video where someone shouts “white power”

He’s said he’s redesigned navy warships to look more beautiful

Oh, and after being told in March that Russia has been offering Afghanistan militants bounties for killing American servicemen, sent PPE to Russia and lobbied for Russia to join the G7.
Trump has firmly committed himself to the "they never told me" defence, with a sprinkling of "it's fake news anyway".

This is high risk if he's lying, and of course he is lying, because there is a clear audit trail for these things. The UK was informed at some point (because British soldiers were targeted as well). Claiming it was bad intel seems a mad strategy.

He had an easy way to deal with this: say he was told, and claim he put secret behind-the-scenes pressure on Russia. There were plenty of lies he could have told that could never be proved as lies. He has no ability to pick beneficial lies any more.

racistDonaldTrump wrote:Intel just reported to me that they did not find this info credible, and therefore did not report it to me or @VP. Possibly another fabricated Russia Hoax, maybe by the Fake News @nytimesbooks, wanting to make Republicans look bad!!!
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

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Vertigowooyay
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Vertigowooyay » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:16 pm

Trump - “Well, at least things can’t get any worse”

Aide - “Ghislaine Maxwell has just been arrested by the FBI“

<cue Curb Your Enthusiasm music>
Calm yourself Doctor NotTheNineO’ClockNews. We’re men of science. We fear no worldly terrors.

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JQH
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by JQH » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:05 am

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:16 pm
Trump - “Well, at least things can’t get any worse”

Aide - “Ghislaine Maxwell has just been arrested by the FBI“

<cue Curb Your Enthusiasm music>
I imagine Andrew Windsor is getting a little worried now. Maxwell has a pretty obvious incentive to cut a deal and spill her guts.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:15 am

Let's hope she doesn't get suicided.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Vertigowooyay
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Vertigowooyay » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:54 am

JQH wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:05 am
Vertigowooyay wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:16 pm
Trump - “Well, at least things can’t get any worse”

Aide - “Ghislaine Maxwell has just been arrested by the FBI“

<cue Curb Your Enthusiasm music>
I imagine Andrew Windsor is getting a little worried now. Maxwell has a pretty obvious incentive to cut a deal and spill her guts.
I agree, just change the name from Trump to Prince Andrew and the joke works *exactly* the same.

Do you think her roladex will be just one exhibit, or will each business card in it be a separate exhibit?...
Calm yourself Doctor NotTheNineO’ClockNews. We’re men of science. We fear no worldly terrors.

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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by JQH » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:05 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:15 am
Let's hope she doesn't get suicided.
If she turns up unfortunately dead, I'm going to be giving the Epstein conspiracy theories a lot more credence.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:19 pm

JQH wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:05 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:15 am
Let's hope she doesn't get suicided.
If she turns up unfortunately dead, I'm going to be giving the Epstein conspiracy theories a lot more credence.
Given that loads of the most powerful people in the world, who have committed serious crimes for decades with no threat of receiving justice, all want her silenced, she's very obviously at grave risk.

Conspiracy theories aside, the Epstein case shows that standard procedure is totally inadequate for keeping such people safe. Multiple cameras failing simultaneously suggests hopeless maintenance. Multiple guards sleeping at the same time suggests useless staffing. Providing reams of bedding (several beds' worth of sheets), electrical cords and bunk beds to someone who was a suicide risk suggests terrible safeguarding.

It ought to be very easy to keep somebody safe inside a federal prison, so I'm sure they've learned their lesson and made the necessary changes.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Squeak » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:36 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:19 pm
JQH wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:05 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:15 am
Let's hope she doesn't get suicided.
If she turns up unfortunately dead, I'm going to be giving the Epstein conspiracy theories a lot more credence.
Given that loads of the most powerful people in the world, who have committed serious crimes for decades with no threat of receiving justice, all want her silenced, she's very obviously at grave risk.

Conspiracy theories aside, the Epstein case shows that standard procedure is totally inadequate for keeping such people safe. Multiple cameras failing simultaneously suggests hopeless maintenance. Multiple guards sleeping at the same time suggests useless staffing. Providing reams of bedding (several beds' worth of sheets), electrical cords and bunk beds to someone who was a suicide risk suggests terrible safeguarding.

It ought to be very easy to keep somebody safe inside a federal prison, so I'm sure they've learned their lesson and made the necessary changes.
I feel as though I've shared this article here before but it's worth a reminder. The US is a dangerous place to be a prisoner, it's just that most of us don't hear about how awfully prisoners get tested until it happens to someone powerful. Understaffing and neglect seem to be the rule rather than the exception.

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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by JQH » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:51 pm

Squeak wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:36 pm
...

I feel as though I've shared this article here before but it's worth a reminder. The US is a dangerous place to be a prisoner, it's just that most of us don't hear about how awfully prisoners get tested until it happens to someone powerful. Understaffing and neglect seem to be the rule rather than the exception.
Quite possibly you have - I've certainly read it before.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

sideshowjim
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by sideshowjim » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:42 pm

Assuming the whole "Trump is absolutely in power due to the Russian government and they hold lots of compromising info over him and various others within the administration and are running things to make the US tear itself apart" theory is true...

Wouldn't it really work well to have Trump go into the November election clearly going to lose, then he "wins" in some nakedly fraudulent way? Probably better than him actually winning a 2nd term legitimately as the country will cease to function politically, and the rest of the world will be forced to decide how the hell they deal with it? ("Yes, congratulations on winning all 58 states Mr President, with 2000% of the vote as well, very impressive.")

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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:56 pm

Squeak wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:36 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:19 pm
JQH wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:05 pm

If she turns up unfortunately dead, I'm going to be giving the Epstein conspiracy theories a lot more credence.
Given that loads of the most powerful people in the world, who have committed serious crimes for decades with no threat of receiving justice, all want her silenced, she's very obviously at grave risk.

Conspiracy theories aside, the Epstein case shows that standard procedure is totally inadequate for keeping such people safe. Multiple cameras failing simultaneously suggests hopeless maintenance. Multiple guards sleeping at the same time suggests useless staffing. Providing reams of bedding (several beds' worth of sheets), electrical cords and bunk beds to someone who was a suicide risk suggests terrible safeguarding.

It ought to be very easy to keep somebody safe inside a federal prison, so I'm sure they've learned their lesson and made the necessary changes.
I feel as though I've shared this article here before but it's worth a reminder. The US is a dangerous place to be a prisoner, it's just that most of us don't hear about how awfully prisoners get tested until it happens to someone powerful. Understaffing and neglect seem to be the rule rather than the exception.
This. A thousand times this.

That and the conspiracies are a stupid meme that seems really, really popular with rightwing weirdos who are obsessed with Hillary Clinton and think she keeps having people murdered to order.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:10 pm

Squeak wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:36 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:19 pm
JQH wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:05 pm

If she turns up unfortunately dead, I'm going to be giving the Epstein conspiracy theories a lot more credence.
Given that loads of the most powerful people in the world, who have committed serious crimes for decades with no threat of receiving justice, all want her silenced, she's very obviously at grave risk.

Conspiracy theories aside, the Epstein case shows that standard procedure is totally inadequate for keeping such people safe. Multiple cameras failing simultaneously suggests hopeless maintenance. Multiple guards sleeping at the same time suggests useless staffing. Providing reams of bedding (several beds' worth of sheets), electrical cords and bunk beds to someone who was a suicide risk suggests terrible safeguarding.

It ought to be very easy to keep somebody safe inside a federal prison, so I'm sure they've learned their lesson and made the necessary changes.
I feel as though I've shared this article here before but it's worth a reminder. The US is a dangerous place to be a prisoner, it's just that most of us don't hear about how awfully prisoners get tested until it happens to someone powerful. Understaffing and neglect seem to be the rule rather than the exception.
Yes, US prisons are generally nasty places to be. However, I've also noticed that egalitarianism doesn't seem to be a strong feature of the US justice system. The last time Epstein was sentenced for abusing children he was allowed to leave prison all day every day. I'm pretty sure that, had they been really really serious about taking down the network of powerful billionaire and politician paedophiles, somebody in the chain of command could have called up the prison and said "you know that guy who's just got off suicide watch? do keep an eye on him properly, we'll pay overtime" or whatever. Rather than giving him well-known suicide equipment.

A few years ago the idea that a network of paedophiles including several prominent politicians and a prince would have a sex trafficking ring centred on a billionaire's island in the Caribbean would have looked like a conspiracy theory even wilder than Pizzagate, yet we now know it to be true, even though its truth has depended upon the silence of dozens and the complicity of law enforcement agencies. The idea that some prison guards could be bribed by billionaires to look the other way or choke some old c.nt to death is a considerably simpler proposition.

Obviously it's perfectly plausible that Epstein would want to kill himself. It's also fairly plausible that the FBI might be incompetent at running a holding facility. But I don't find "witness in custody silenced to protect large, powerful criminal network" enormously implausible either, especially when you bear in mind that the organisation in question has almost certainly infiltrated the FBI.

Some of the memes are pretty funny, too. Though I don't understand the suggestion that Hillary Clinton would be involved - it's Bill who turns up in the flight logs.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Gfamily
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Gfamily » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:33 pm

JQH wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:05 pm
If she turns up unfortunately dead, I'm going to be giving the Epstein conspiracy theories a lot more credence.
Can one pay for a personal protection team in US prisions ?
Should be an option...
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:40 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:33 pm
JQH wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:05 pm
If she turns up unfortunately dead, I'm going to be giving the Epstein conspiracy theories a lot more credence.
Can one pay for a personal protection team in US prisions ?
Should be an option...
Epstein did, the first time he was incarcerated. He was allowed out to go to his office all day every day, where his security was monitored by a team he paid overtime (the logs to prove they actually turned up were subsequently destroyed). His non-profit organisation also donated $128k to the sheriff's office to cover the costs of looking after him.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Trump Impeachment

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:15 am

Squeak wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:36 pm
I feel as though I've shared this article here before but it's worth a reminder. The US is a dangerous place to be a prisoner, it's just that most of us don't hear about how awfully prisoners get tested until it happens to someone powerful. Understaffing and neglect seem to be the rule rather than the exception.
To put a figure on it, the wiki says
Between 2010 and 2016, around 124 inmates killed themselves while in federal custody, or around 20 prisoners per year, out of an inmate population of 180,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_E ... stigations

That's 69 cases out of 100,000.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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