has education funding increased?
has education funding increased?
Last edited by Stephanie on Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split from class and class relations in the modern UK thread
Reason: Split from class and class relations in the modern UK thread
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
- individualmember
- Catbabel
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Re: has education funding increased?
Thanks. The increased number of TAs compared with teachers and lowering 'per pupil' spending/increased class sizes since 2009/10 is what has been happening in this neck of the woods (at least in Hillingdon,where my wife works). Although to be fair its only in the last 2 to 3 years that my wife has been concerned about impending staff cuts that won't be covered by natural wastage and will have to be redundancies.Gfamily wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:00 pmSome data on education spending
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14369
Re: has education funding increased?
Spending per pupil has increased in real terms except in the further education sectorindividualmember wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:56 pmThanks. The increased number of TAs compared with teachers and lowering 'per pupil' spending/increased class sizes since 2009/10 is what has been happening in this neck of the woods (at least in Hillingdon,where my wife works). Although to be fair its only in the last 2 to 3 years that my wife has been concerned about impending staff cuts that won't be covered by natural wastage and will have to be redundancies.Gfamily wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:00 pmSome data on education spending
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14369
Re: has education funding increased?
IFS wrote:Total school spending per pupil in England has fallen by 8% in real terms between 2009–10 and 2019–20. The bulk of these funding cuts were driven by a 57% reduction in spending per pupil on services provided by local authorities and a more than 20% cut in sixth-form funding per pupil.=
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: has education funding increased?
I saw what they wrote. Look at the graph again.Gfamily wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:28 pmIFS wrote:Total school spending per pupil in England has fallen by 8% in real terms between 2009–10 and 2019–20. The bulk of these funding cuts were driven by a 57% reduction in spending per pupil on services provided by local authorities and a more than 20% cut in sixth-form funding per pupil.=
Re: has education funding increased?
Sheldrake: Please provide a link to the source of the graph.
Gfamily: Please provide a link to the source of the quote.
Gfamily: Please provide a link to the source of the quote.
Re: has education funding increased?
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: has education funding increased?
There are data tables. Per Table 3.1, it looks like spending by schools has gone up, but total spending has gone down because spending by local authorities has fallen off a cliff.
I don't claim this as an authoritative answer because (a) I'm on a phone, (b) I'm in a bar, and (c) I don't really know your forrin funding system.
I don't claim this as an authoritative answer because (a) I'm on a phone, (b) I'm in a bar, and (c) I don't really know your forrin funding system.
Re: has education funding increased?
Missed the edit window:
Perhaps someone non-forrin could explain the distinction between spending by schools and spending by local authorities. I presume the schools aren't directly raising the money they spend, so where are they getting it from, if not the local authorities? And if the local authority money isn't being spent by schools, who's spending it and what's it being spent on?
Perhaps someone non-forrin could explain the distinction between spending by schools and spending by local authorities. I presume the schools aren't directly raising the money they spend, so where are they getting it from, if not the local authorities? And if the local authority money isn't being spent by schools, who's spending it and what's it being spent on?
Re: has education funding increased?
Possibly true but I would like to see some evidence. Also, what have student numbers been doing? How fast is the funding per head increasing?
Some evidence that this exists would also be nice as it does not match my experience of working in the sector. Toby Young used to trot out this canard - until he tried running a Free School and was forced to admit that having aspirations did not automatically translate into improved outcomes.The problem with our education system is not funding, it's the rotten anti-aspirational culture of the educational establishment.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
Re: has education funding increased?
Although the majority of schools used to be under the control of and funded by Local Authorities, Central government directly funds Academies and 'Free Schools', and the majority of secondary schools (and about 25% of primary schools) are now academies.bolo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:50 pmMissed the edit window:
Perhaps someone non-forrin could explain the distinction between spending by schools and spending by local authorities. I presume the schools aren't directly raising the money they spend, so where are they getting it from, if not the local authorities? And if the local authority money isn't being spent by schools, who's spending it and what's it being spent on?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_(English_school)
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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- Stargoon
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:36 pm
Re: has education funding increased?
JQH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:00 pmPossibly true but I would like to see some evidence. Also, what have student numbers been doing? How fast is the funding per head increasing?
Some evidence that this exists would also be nice as it does not match my experience of working in the sector. Toby Young used to trot out this canard - until he tried running a Free School and was forced to admit that having aspirations did not automatically translate into improved outcomes.The problem with our education system is not funding, it's the rotten anti-aspirational culture of the educational establishment.
Couldn't he have got his father to make a few calls, hand over some cash and sort it out? After all it worked for his own educational problems.
Re: has education funding increased?
Resistance to increased rigour Gove was trying to introduce was one example already given. Continued resistance to attempts to objectively measure children's educational progress, particularly when it's tied to the performance of teaching staff.JQH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:00 pmSome evidence that this exists would also be nice as it does not match my experience of working in the sector. Toby Young used to trot out this canard - until he tried running a Free School and was forced to admit that having aspirations did not automatically translate into improved outcomes.
Re: has education funding increased?
So "spending per pupil by schools has gone up" is an artifact of a change in the route the money takes from taxpayer to classroom? And "total spending per pupil has gone down" is more indicative of the resources actually available?Gfamily wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:04 pmAlthough the majority of schools used to be under the control of and funded by Local Authorities, Central government directly funds Academies and 'Free Schools', and the majority of secondary schools (and about 25% of primary schools) are now academies.bolo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:50 pmMissed the edit window:
Perhaps someone non-forrin could explain the distinction between spending by schools and spending by local authorities. I presume the schools aren't directly raising the money they spend, so where are they getting it from, if not the local authorities? And if the local authority money isn't being spent by schools, who's spending it and what's it being spent on?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_(English_school)
Re: has education funding increased?
No.bolo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:27 pmSo "spending per pupil by schools has gone up" is an artifact of a change in the route the money takes from taxpayer to classroom? And "total spending per pupil has gone down" is more indicative of the resources actually available?Gfamily wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:04 pmAlthough the majority of schools used to be under the control of and funded by Local Authorities, Central government directly funds Academies and 'Free Schools', and the majority of secondary schools (and about 25% of primary schools) are now academies.bolo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:50 pmMissed the edit window:
Perhaps someone non-forrin could explain the distinction between spending by schools and spending by local authorities. I presume the schools aren't directly raising the money they spend, so where are they getting it from, if not the local authorities? And if the local authority money isn't being spent by schools, who's spending it and what's it being spent on?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_(English_school)
Re: has education funding increased?
And how would you suggest educational progress be objectively measured?sheldrake wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:25 pmResistance to increased rigour Gove was trying to introduce was one example already given. Continued resistance to attempts to objectively measure children's educational progress, particularly when it's tied to the performance of teaching staff.JQH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:00 pmSome evidence that this exists would also be nice as it does not match my experience of working in the sector. Toby Young used to trot out this canard - until he tried running a Free School and was forced to admit that having aspirations did not automatically translate into improved outcomes.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
Fintan O'Toole
Re: has education funding increased?
By giving children across the country standard tests at various age checkpoints, as we do now.JQH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:29 pmAnd how would you suggest educational progress be objectively measured?sheldrake wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:25 pmResistance to increased rigour Gove was trying to introduce was one example already given. Continued resistance to attempts to objectively measure children's educational progress, particularly when it's tied to the performance of teaching staff.JQH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:00 pmSome evidence that this exists would also be nice as it does not match my experience of working in the sector. Toby Young used to trot out this canard - until he tried running a Free School and was forced to admit that having aspirations did not automatically translate into improved outcomes.
Re: has education funding increased?
A graph doesn't tell you anything unless you understand what it's graphing. In this case, it appears to be graphing "school spending," which is apparently not the same as "spending". Look at the data tables.
Re: has education funding increased?
But school spending per pupil is what determines the front line resources available to the children. Even if that local authority spending reduction since 2010 represented a withdrawal of real useful services, it is stlil a modest blip in an upward trend (above inflation) going back 20 years. UK Education hasn't been improving in line with funding for a generation or so. The first sign of it actually getting better, Gove's reforms, was resisted by the same people who always claim they don't have enough money.
Re: has education funding increased?
Do you have any evidence for this? Equally plausible is that the drop in local authority spending coincided with a shift of administrative responsibilities from LAs to schools, so that a smaller fraction of school spending actually reaches the classroom.
Re: has education funding increased?
Total education spending for the UK increased faster than inflation for 3 decades.
Last edited by sheldrake on Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.