Veganism.

[shpalman]

One of the most widely applied pesticides is the herbicide...

FFS.

... glyphosate (aka Roundup), which is a staple of large-scale almond growers and has been shown to be lethal to bees as well as cause cancer in humans.

FFFS.

[bmforre]

I grew up on the west coast of Norway and am pretty old. In my childhood fresh fruit was just available in autumn. Fortunately the sea and fjords offered plenty of fish. Don't know how we'd survived without that.

This country is a leader in fish-farming nowadays. We use more and more plant fodder to raise fish and much of the plants are modified by suppliers in Latin-America to contain more fish-like balance of oils. Good for the globe and hungry humans but dismissed by some purists because use of GMO breeding to obtain fish-like oils. No problem for vegans I guess as they don't eat fish.

[daydreambeliever]

Thanks fairy small - your points are absolutely valid. Sorry to everyone for turning so ranty! I'll just be there when any of them want me, right now with Opti in bed I best make some coffee!

[Grumble]

One of the most widely applied pesticides is the herbicide...

FFS.

What’s wrong with that? “Pesticides” includes herbicides and insecticides doesn’t it?

[Woodchopper]

One of the most widely applied pesticides is the herbicide...

FFS.

What’s wrong with that? “Pesticides” includes herbicides and insecticides doesn’t it?

Yes, weeds are pests too.

[GeenDienst]

News today, Greggs is handing out £7 million to workers (up to 300 sovs each, it says) as a bonus because their vegan sausie roll has been such a success.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ll-success

[Allo V Psycho]

That child is going to have so much to rebel against in about ten years time.

She'll stay out all night and do bacon and egg rolls in the morning. The hussy.

[Tessa K]

That child is going to have so much to rebel against in about ten years time.

She'll stay out all night and do bacon and egg rolls in the morning. The hussy.

While wearing leather.

[GeenDienst]

And eating figs for afters.

[Bird on a Fire]

That child is going to have so much to rebel against in about ten years time.

She'll stay out all night and do bacon and egg rolls in the morning. The hussy.

To be honest of all the issues DDB raises I think veganism is the least of that kid's worries.

[bmforre]

To be honest of all the issues DDB raises I think veganism is the least of that kid's worries.

Not if she goes years and years lacking vit B12.

[Opti]

That child is going to have so much to rebel against in about ten years time.

She'll stay out all night and do bacon and egg rolls in the morning. The hussy.

To be honest of all the issues DDB raises I think veganism is the least of that kid's worries.

Yeah, there is a worrying descent into isolationism.

I'm in bed with proper, weapons-grade, flu. f.cking useless vaccines.

[bmforre]

Dr. Zoë Harcombe writes extensively on Is Veganuary healthy?

ALA, calcium, complete protein, DHA, EPA, iodine, iron, nutrient deficiency, omega 3, retinol, selenium, supplements, Vegan, vegan diets, vitamin B12, Vitamin D Deficiency, zinc ...

Snippet:

* The answer to the Veganuary site’s own question “Is a vegan diet healthy?” was a quotation from the US Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that “a vegan diet is nutritionally adequate.” This is not true. A vegan diet is not nutritionally adequate – it requires supplementation.

* A vegan diet does not provide retinol, B12, D3, heme iron or omega-3 in the forms needed by the body. A vegan diet is likely deficient in calcium, iodine, iron and zinc.

* The health information on the Veganuary.com campaign site did state the importance of vital nutrients. It rarely clarified the form of the nutrient required by the body (the animal form) and the fact that conversion from plant to animal forms of nutrients is poor, if possible, at all.

Considerably more at link.

[mediocrity511]

Dr. Zoë Harcombe writes extensively on Is Veganuary healthy?

ALA, calcium, complete protein, DHA, EPA, iodine, iron, nutrient deficiency, omega 3, retinol, selenium, supplements, Vegan, vegan diets, vitamin B12, Vitamin D Deficiency, zinc ...

Snippet:

* The answer to the Veganuary site’s own question “Is a vegan diet healthy?” was a quotation from the US Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that “a vegan diet is nutritionally adequate.” This is not true. A vegan diet is not nutritionally adequate – it requires supplementation.

* A vegan diet does not provide retinol, B12, D3, heme iron or omega-3 in the forms needed by the body. A vegan diet is likely deficient in calcium, iodine, iron and zinc.

* The health information on the Veganuary.com campaign site did state the importance of vital nutrients. It rarely clarified the form of the nutrient required by the body (the animal form) and the fact that conversion from plant to animal forms of nutrients is poor, if possible, at all.

Considerably more at link.

Is she a well known doctor? That piece contains quite a few claims that are contrary to what most major health organisations say. For example it mentions protein combining, which used to be thought to be highly important but is now widely considered to be uneccessary.

She also seems to think the need for B12 supplementation is some kind of gotcha and is a bit scathing about fortified foods "high calorie supplements". But my understanding is that commercially bought animal products contains B12 because the animals themselves are supplemented.

[basementer]

Is she a well known doctor? That piece contains quite a few claims that are contrary to what most major health organisations say. For example it mentions protein combining, which used to be thought to be highly important but is now widely considered to be uneccessary.

RationalWiki is critical of her but, by their standards, mildly so.

[plodder]

Are there any large-group studies of vegans, their health &ct?

[bmforre]

Is she a well known doctor? That piece contains quite a few claims that are contrary to what most major health organisations say. For example it mentions protein combining, which used to be thought to be highly important but is now widely considered to be uneccessary.

RationalWiki is critical of her but, by their standards, mildly so.

I get a similar whiff of a prophetic propagandist who still makes some valid points.
On the other hand here is a pro-vegetarian who nevertheless admits that B12 is a problem that needs to be handled seriously.

I must quote a bit from dicussion on the page linked to:

Riaan De Winnaar
Livestock are also suplemented... Meaning meat eating humans also get their b12 from suplements. You could eat your own feases as mentioned above which is how we natrally would've consumed ours through out evolution.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2y

Shannon Cila
Riaan De Winnaar
No, that is false. It would be idiotic for ranchers to buy B12 supplements for their animals, when all they have to do is buy a cobalt-fortified mineral lick and the animals then manufacture their own B12. Humans can't.

That rumor was started by a quack vegan doctor named Rookie, and never provided her source for that silly notion. That's all it is: an ignorant, silly lie. She knows zero zip zilch about how herbivores and ruminants get their B12.

Mediocrity: Ask yourself how animals got B12 before vitamins were discovered and supplement production business got going?

[mediocrity511]

Is she a well known doctor? That piece contains quite a few claims that are contrary to what most major health organisations say. For example it mentions protein combining, which used to be thought to be highly important but is now widely considered to be uneccessary.

RationalWiki is critical of her but, by their standards, mildly so.

I get a similar whiff of a prophetic propagandist who still makes some valid points.
On the other hand here is a pro-vegetarian who nevertheless admits that B12 is a problem that needs to be handled seriously.

I must quote a bit from dicussion on the page linked to:

Riaan De Winnaar
Livestock are also suplemented... Meaning meat eating humans also get their b12 from suplements. You could eat your own feases as mentioned above which is how we natrally would've consumed ours through out evolution.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2y

Shannon Cila
Riaan De Winnaar
No, that is false. It would be idiotic for ranchers to buy B12 supplements for their animals, when all they have to do is buy a cobalt-fortified mineral lick and the animals then manufacture their own B12. Humans can't.

That rumor was started by a quack vegan doctor named Rookie, and never provided her source for that silly notion. That's all it is: an ignorant, silly lie. She knows zero zip zilch about how herbivores and ruminants get their B12.

Mediocrity: Ask yourself how animals got B12 before vitamins were discovered and supplement production business got going?

That would be why I quite specifically mentioned "commercially farmed animals". Worth pointing out that humans used to also receive some of their b12 from vegetables grown in "night soil". The point is that modern farming practises mean we either need to supplement ourselves with b12 or we need to provide sources for animals to supplement themselves.

[Woodchopper]

As far as I know...

Animals make their own B12 via bacteria in their guts. [Incidentally people do as well but due to an evolutionary quirk in a way that isn't absorbed]. Doing so requires trace amounts of cobalt which isn't necessarily available in sufficient quantities from the food available to farm animals. For example, some areas have little cobalt in the soil which then is reflected in how much cows consume in the grass they eat.

So farm animals are given cobalt supplements which mean that their guts can produce adequate B12.

The overall message is that farm animals are routinely given all sorts of supplements. There's little that's natural about mechanized agriculture.

[sTeamTraen]

News today, Greggs is handing out £7 million to workers (up to 300 sovs each, it says) as a bonus because their vegan sausie roll has been such a success.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ll-success

From what I've been told, Greggs is widely regarded as a very good employer within the food service/retail industries, and having a flat-rate bonus is part of that. I doubt if the VSR has been the only factor in their increased profits, but it makes for a nice story and I enjoyed watching Piers Morgan lose his sh.t over the idea that the kind of people who buy their lunch at Greggs might want to eat a meal without animal products.

But I can think of one or two vegans of my acquaintance who would argue that this proves that Greggs are charging too much for the VSR, and that by making it 10p cheaper they could save another 50,000 pigs. (To be fair, I also know several vegans whose reasoning doesn't remind me of single-minded religious fanatics.)

[daydreambeliever]

So just to say - the kids as we call DIL & son couldn't wait to get there hands on our leather sofa....plus another one that probably isn't vegan Right I will stop right now - Opti has been in bed for four days - no solids (I'll do the jokes) have to bath him - there's a smell in here - he needs to take off all his clothes!

[Gfamily]

News today, Greggs is handing out £7 million to workers (up to 300 sovs each, it says) as a bonus because their vegan sausie roll has been such a success.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ll-success

From what I've been told, Greggs is widely regarded as a very good employer within the food service/retail industries, and having a flat-rate bonus is part of that. I doubt if the VSR has been the only factor in their increased profits, but it makes for a nice story and I enjoyed watching Piers Morgan lose his sh.t over the idea that the kind of people who buy their lunch at Greggs might want to eat a meal without animal products.

But I can think of one or two vegans of my acquaintance who would argue that this proves that Greggs are charging too much for the VSR, and that by making it 10p cheaper they could save another 50,000 pigs. (To be fair, I also know several vegans whose reasoning doesn't remind me of single-minded religious fanatics.)

I doubt they've made £7m extra profit directly from them, more likely it'll have been from attracting new customers 'out of interest*', and they may have returned having seen the range of products (not just steak bakes).

Actually, £7m strikes me as pretty good value for the goodwill that the publicity has brought.

* also 'if Piers bl..dy Morgan hates it, they must be worth trying' - he was very helpful in that respect!

[Grumble]

also 'if Piers bl..dy Morgan hates it, they must be worth trying' - he was very helpful in that respect!

Wasn’t there a suggestion that they share a publicist?

[Gfamily]

also 'if Piers bl..dy Morgan hates it, they must be worth trying' - he was very helpful in that respect!

Wasn’t there a suggestion that they share a publicist?

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/01/03 ... pr-agency/ makes that claim
which turns out to be
The same PR firm that Greggs signed up with in 2016 had been used by Ebury Press to promote Morgan's "The Insider" 2005
It took me longer to type this than to check the 'facts'

[science_fox]

News today, Greggs is handing out £7 million to workers (up to 300 sovs each, it says) as a bonus because their vegan sausie roll has been such a success.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ll-success

From what I've been told, Greggs is widely regarded as a very good employer within the food service/retail industries, and having a flat-rate bonus is part of that. I doubt if the VSR has been the only factor in their increased profits, but it makes for a nice story and I enjoyed watching Piers Morgan lose his sh.t over the idea that the kind of people who buy their lunch at Greggs might want to eat a meal without animal products.

But I can think of one or two vegans of my acquaintance who would argue that this proves that Greggs are charging too much for the VSR, and that by making it 10p cheaper they could save another 50,000 pigs. (To be fair, I also know several vegans whose reasoning doesn't remind me of single-minded religious fanatics.)

Although I saw a twitter thread that because some/a lot of their staff are on close to minimum wage and UC, they won't actually get much bonus, as their UC will be reduced in it's place. Thanks Tories. If instead gregs had handed out vouchers or in other forms than a bonus it wouldn't go straight back to the government.