Democratic Candidate 2020

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dyqik
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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:14 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 am
Name one good person of congress who doesn't back Bernie Sanders.
Don't be silly. You'll declare them problematic, because they don't support Bernie Sanders.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:19 am

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:14 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 am
Name one good person of congress who doesn't back Bernie Sanders.
Don't be silly. You'll declare them problematic, because they don't support Bernie Sanders.
I was actually going to do that yes, but I am also interested in who the good low profile Democrats are.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:28 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:19 am
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:14 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 am
Name one good person of congress who doesn't back Bernie Sanders.
Don't be silly. You'll declare them problematic, because they don't support Bernie Sanders.
I was actually going to do that yes, but I am also interested in who the good low profile Democrats are.
The idea that most Democrats are problematic renders this whole conversion pointless.

Politicians are people, and aren't perfect. There's all sorts of complications.

Joe Kennedy is pretty good, although you can raise questions because he once voted against a amendment to reduce surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. My representative, Lori Trahan is solid, but is currently under investigation for possible campaign finance violations. Jim McGovern is solid, and hasn't endorsed anyone for 2020, as far as I know.

And that's just the MA 2, MA 3 and MA 4 districts, chosen as the nearest three districts to me.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:43 am

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:28 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:19 am
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:14 am


Don't be silly. You'll declare them problematic, because they don't support Bernie Sanders.
I was actually going to do that yes, but I am also interested in who the good low profile Democrats are.
The idea that most Democrats are problematic renders this whole conversion pointless.

Politicians are people, and aren't perfect. There's all sorts of complications.

Joe Kennedy is pretty good, although you can raise questions because he once voted against a amendment to reduce surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. My representative, Lori Trahan is solid, but is currently under investigation for possible campaign finance violations. Jim McGovern is solid, and hasn't endorsed anyone for 2020, as far as I know.

And that's just the MA 2, MA 3 and MA 4 districts, chosen as the nearest three districts to me.
ETA, and I didn't look any further than MA 1 as well. Which has a long term Democrat who is a bit more to the center, and who did vote for the Iraq war.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:59 am

Ayanna Pressly in MA 7 is a member of the squad and has endorsed Warren.

Also in MA, we have Seth Moulton, who is generally progressive, and opposed sending troops to Iraq in 2014.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:17 am

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:28 am
The idea that most Democrats are problematic renders this whole conversion pointless.

Politicians are people, and aren't perfect. There's all sorts of complications.

Joe Kennedy is pretty good, although you can raise questions because he once voted against a amendment to reduce surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. My representative, Lori Trahan is solid, but is currently under investigation for possible campaign finance violations. Jim McGovern is solid, and hasn't endorsed anyone for 2020, as far as I know.

And that's just the MA 2, MA 3 and MA 4 districts, chosen as the nearest three districts to me.
Those people seem ok, particularly McGovern, as far as I can work out from using https://justfacts.votesmart.org/, and some other googling. McGovern has had some good leftist associations in the past too. I retract my fully serious claim that literally every decent Democrat endorses Bernie. By the way, I think McGovern endorses Warren.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by GeenDienst » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:37 am

This thread could have been called "Why Trump will win again".
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:14 pm

GeenDienst wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:37 am
This thread could have been called "Why Trump will win again".
Because people like you would vote for him over people with sensible policies?

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:24 pm

It's more a demonstration that most people haven't got a clue.
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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by GeenDienst » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:50 pm

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:14 pm
GeenDienst wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:37 am
This thread could have been called "Why Trump will win again".
Because people like you would vote for him over people with sensible policies?
Because the dems have provided a list of dull, flawed candidates, with the front runner at this time being a pre-failed dinosaur from a time very long ago. Meanwhile, Sanders, if he lives long enough, will be there to stir up apathy around the eventual winner, just like last time.

And I have never, ever said I am a Trump supporter, yet your lack of comprehension immediately led to you labelling me as one. You see, and we'll take this slowly, saying the dems aren't mounting a more-than-laughable challenge is not the same as saying I support the other guy. OK?
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:53 pm

GeenDienst wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:50 pm
secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:14 pm
GeenDienst wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:37 am
This thread could have been called "Why Trump will win again".
Because people like you would vote for him over people with sensible policies?
Because the dems have provided a list of dull, flawed candidates, with the front runner at this time being a pre-failed dinosaur from a time very long ago. Meanwhile, Sanders, if he lives long enough, will be there to stir up apathy around the eventual winner, just like last time.

And I have never, ever said I am a Trump supporter, yet your lack of comprehension immediately led to you labelling me as one. You see, and we'll take this slowly, saying the dems aren't mounting a more-than-laughable challenge is not the same as saying I support the other guy. OK?
Saying the Dems aren't mounting a more-than-laughable challenge is still very stupid though.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:00 pm

GeenDienst wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:50 pm
Because the dems have provided a list of dull, flawed candidates, with the front runner at this time being a pre-failed dinosaur from a time very long ago. Meanwhile, Sanders, if he lives long enough, will be there to stir up apathy around the eventual winner, just like last time.

And I have never, ever said I am a Trump supporter, yet your lack of comprehension immediately led to you labelling me as one. You see, and we'll take this slowly, saying the dems aren't mounting a more-than-laughable challenge is not the same as saying I support the other guy. OK?
Sorry, I was just going by your posting history of contempt for people you deem to be too far left. If Sanders got the nomination, would you hypothetically vote for him? I know there are several Democrats who wouldn't, and you wouldn't vote for Corbyn in the last one here.

Sanders did lots of rallies for Hillary. Blaming the left because the establishment candidate couldn't beat literally the worst man in America is just daft. You're just seeing what you want to see.

I agree, of course, that Biden is rubbish.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by GeenDienst » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:38 pm

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:00 pm
Sorry, I was just going by your posting history of contempt for people you deem to be too far left.
I was pointing out the overwhelming uselessness of Corbyn, mostly. How did that work out?

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:00 pm
Sanders did lots of rallies for Hillary. Blaming the left because the establishment candidate couldn't beat literally the worst man in America is just daft.
Once again, it's not about the left, it's the candidate. you really do seem to struggle with that concept. The voters tend to get it, see above. And just the other month, Clinton said about sanders and his "support":
Asked in a wide-ranging interview Wednesday on SiriusXM's "Howard Stern Show" if she hated or was "upset" with Sanders, Clinton replied, "No, disappointed. And I hope he doesn't do it again to whoever gets the nomination."

"Once is enough," Clinton added. "We have to join forces."

"Bernie could've endorsed you quicker," Howard Stern said to Clinton.

"He could've. He hurt me. There's no doubt about it, he hurt me."
So, Clinton said that Sanders damaged her challenge to Trump. It could well have made the difference. He'll do the same again.
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:53 pm
Saying the Dems aren't mounting a more-than-laughable challenge is still very stupid though.
And nowhere near as stupid as any contest where Biden is front runner. It really doesn't matter who comes second in that contest. If he wins, you could very well be f.cked, whether it's trump or (probably, if not Trump) Pence he's facing. Why is this even happening?
Just tell 'em I'm broke and don't come round here no more.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by Martin_B » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:13 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:14 pm
GeenDienst wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:37 am
This thread could have been called "Why Trump will win again".
Because people like you would vote for him over people with sensible policies?
But there is a difference between what you deem important and have sensible policies about, and what the majority of the American electorate deem important. Having the best policy to combat climate change or improve welfare doesn't matter if the 'average' American doesn't consider climate change to be an issue or that welfare handouts should be given to "work-shy layabouts". If the 'average' American considers the main issue to them to be the right to own guns, or stopping jobs heading overseas, or stopping illegal immigration, they will vote for the candidate who at least claims to be trying to maintain their rights to own 75 assault rifles; starts trade wars with China which don't do anything to protect American jobs, but *sound* like they do, and tries to build a huge white elephant of a wall which will do absolutely nothing to stop anyone coming into the country.
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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by lpm » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:31 am

Oh dear.
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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:11 am

Wow, looks like the Democrabs have learnt loads from the labour party.
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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:59 pm

This is probably overall a good thing, rather than the Democratic candidate being decided by the bounce they get from winning the votes of the tiny self selecting set of Democratic party supporters from a deep red plains state (i.e. very rural and white) who can spend half a Monday shuffling about school gyms.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by lpm » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:41 pm

Amazingly good for Pete Buttigieg. On another forum I mentioned him as a possible early on - but with the dismissive comment he was only in it to sell books.

I stand by that. It surely was only intended as an ideas campaign or introductory run. An openly gay President?

Nobody believes he will get any black support in the South though.

Joe Biden had a shocker.

Bernie Sanders is nicely placed.

Elizabeth Warren is up there, plausible path to win it.

Amy Klobuchar stays in quite convincingly.

Bloomberg is the only other possible now. Not competing in Iowa has kept him out of the scrum.
I'll miss him after he's died in prison

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:42 am

It's ironic, because the whole thing is a reminder why Buttigieg's 'apps will save us' world view is b.llsh.t.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:58 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:42 am
It's ironic, because the whole thing is a reminder why Buttigieg's 'apps will save us' world view is b.llsh.t.
The major issue with the app here is that there's no money for developing apps between campaign seasons, and the players refuse to use open source code in case they give advantages to the opposition (this view is largely b.llsh.t, as the two parties do things completely differently, so there's not much help from shared code).

It's fairly unique to political apps, tbh.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:05 am

dyqik wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:58 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:42 am
It's ironic, because the whole thing is a reminder why Buttigieg's 'apps will save us' world view is b.llsh.t.
The major issue with the app here is that there's no money for developing apps between campaign seasons, and the players refuse to use open source code in case they give advantages to the opposition (this view is largely b.llsh.t, as the two parties do things completely differently, so there's not much help from shared code).

It's fairly unique to political apps, tbh.
That may be true, but I'm not sure how the app being bad because for reasons that were known well in advance makes it any better.

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:51 am

Corporations also refuse to open source code, for fear of giving advantage to competitors, so I'm not sure the problem is quite unique to politics.
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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 am

Iowa Democrats are lucky they don't have any substantial lithium deposits, or the US would be supporting regime change by now.
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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:07 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:51 am
Corporations also refuse to open source code, for fear of giving advantage to competitors, so I'm not sure the problem is quite unique to politics.
That's not the main issue, it's the one that makes the first issue worse.

See this Twitter thread

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Re: Democratic Candidate 2020

Post by dyqik » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:11 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 am
Iowa Democrats are lucky they don't have any substantial lithium deposits, or the US would be supporting regime change by now.
The idea of the caucus system needs to just f.ck off and die. It's a relic of the early 19th century that is null and void in the era of telegraphs.

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